The offline research required turns me off from really trying them. I did quite a few 1-10s back in Legion, but the bar seems higher now and the players crankier.
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When I see this line I immediately stop reading.
I said Classic. You said vanilla. Where did we go wrong?
yeah sure, buit where did this raid or die stuff come from before the expansion, raiding is prob the worst way to get any gear at all.
Maybe the real question is: Is raid still an appealing content for the new generation of gamer?
I have been playing MMO’s since Ultima Online, so I’m used to corps run, losing level and so on.
Raid is an old concept; I think now a days with the new generation of gamers M+ like content is better.
You could have the same boss like in a raid but scaled for a 5 man.
You could have your regular dungeons turns into M+ and a 5 five-man M++ with more challenges and fight a Raid boss at the end.
The gaming market now a days is too competitive, for MMO’s to make a come back they need to adapt to the new generation of players. Before a MMO players were committed almost a 100% to play MMO’s only, now a day’s players want to log in do their stuff and move on to another game and there is nothing wrong with that.
We are in an era of Esports, it is far easier to develop content for a smaller scale than a Raid and I think it will be easier also to balance classes instead of trying to balance classes for Raid M+ and PVP.
I will be very curious on all WoW populations what is the % participating in Raid.
By doing what they did with the loots they took a step back ward, for sure I agree that Raid loots should be superior but there is no denying that SL in M+ is very toxic.
This is my main lol. I quit SL the moment I hit 60. I haven’t touched a M+ since Legion as well. I hate M+ and what it has done to the game. For every player that likes it, there is probably 50 people that don’t.
I will be curious to see the post mortem someday about WoW. I’m betting their attempt to make WoW PVE content into an e-sport will be at the top of the list of failed systems they introduced.
Maybe not, but why use a 16 year old game to try to chase a new audience? Why not just make a new game? MMOs are probably the dumbest genre to try to make an e-sport out of.
MMOs strengths were their virtual worlds and the random player interactions with in those worlds. Turning WoW into Destiny/Diablo style lobby game was just flat out dumb.
I see so many MMO gamers now complaining that they don’t have any modern MMOs that play to strengths to what made MMOs fun in the first place. A lot are stuck playing older versions or private servers of dead MMOs.
The success of Classic proves there is still a market for a traditional MMO.
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And your source on this is?
Lol, you seriously asked for a source? You m+ defenders are in an echo chamber. I’m glad SL cured my addiction to Wow, because I seriously can’t stand this community anymore.
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I do agree with you and I understand other might hold a different opinion on this.
But limiting or reduce loot from a loot base game is big NONO.
You proved my point. How can anyone take your opinion on a system seriously when you haven’t even engaged in it?
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Unrated PVP is the best way to gear up now…How stupid is Blizzard?
I agree with your original post. What Blizzard has done has followed that scheme and has effectively turned this game into a lobby game.
There’s 2 issues at play when looking at M+ and Toxicity:
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The way the system is setup is counterintuitive. It’s a system that’s designed for fast runs with increasing difficulty but has no means of dictating how or who joins that content other than a players determination. This has proven to be in every other modern game the way not to run a system like this; Matchmaking with several different layers of analytics is required if you’re going to promote this system–otherwise you’re just basically asking players to be kind to one another and humans are very much like dogs when they’re behind fences they’ll just bark and be all nasty toward one another because they can and there’s no actual repercussions for their behavior. I did not once experience toxicity when grinding dungeons from 1-50 with LFD, the reason being was it’s an accessible tool that doesn’t feel like a whole process. Toxicity decreases when players feel it’s okay to fail but it rewards those who try their best. Right now that’s not a thing.
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Preach actually talked about this yesterday–the issue is with Keys and the Great Vault, if you’re gearing your character right now the GV is the best way to gear your character. If you’re in a 10+ or 15+ you do not want to run any lower keys because you will have to run another high end key to offset running that one low key. This entire system given the current loot system creates a significant bottle neck for players around ilvl 190-200 which is where the majority of the casual base is right now and has been for maybe about a week or so. If you log on and really only have time to do 1 or 2 M+ dungeons there is absolutely no value in doing a lower level key and if someone asks for help you’re actually incentivized to say no. This will increase toxicity because what it leads to is an artificial inflation of ilvl for lower keys because players don’t want players who have the possibility of failure in their higher end keys, and it effectively removes players who want to help other players from doing so because it actually punishes them in the GV.
MMOs today have become somewhat of a weird game. Literally when I think of popular games on twitch and games players like to play today and like to watch all of them have some elements in common; but the biggest is the accessibility of playing the game and the uniqueness each time you play brings to the table. MMOs do not have this today. Alternative styles of play are punished more harshly in MMOs sooner than they are in MOBAs and FPS’s. It’s rather shocking. Then couple it with the fact that the content that casuals typically take forever going through, which is leveling, has been essentially been reduced to a 1-2 week endeavor. Want to know why Classic feels more casual friendly? Because the content that’s there takes longer to play through than it does in Retail so when you get to the top it took you a month or so, and you can go level a different class, that’s another month. Yet here we are max level and ilvl 185+ looking for something to do that will progress your character further, and Ion says
"Not for you, this is where you get off."
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