Blizzard has made mythic+ dungeons far more toxic

Community General Discussion
21

M+ is what saved the game from shutting down. There’s no issue giving out raid level loot if the content has raid level difficulty.

Don’t like it, don’t do it.

This is entirely false. In BfA, trying to gear up a toon from scratch entirely from M+ was entirely painful, and mostly required a full group armor stack, a day off, and getting run through 15s by people who could carry your alt.

Going from no gear to full gear in M+ without anyone having an interest in trading you loot and having to get into keys (or level your own key) with similarly geared people took ages and the levels of RNG you faced where monstrous.

The false notion that you could gear up from M+ in a day in BfA where entirely rooted in friends carrying you or paying strangers ludicrous amounts of gold for the same.

9 Likes
22

When it’s my key I don’t care about time only finish.

I did someone +4 with a pug it was their key even though dps was 700 to 1.6 ST and bosses took 6mins to kill. I stayed because they did mechanics, just boss took to long to kill. If I feel like we are spin wheels I will stay until they give up. If you think you can get better I will stay.

So, is it’s Blizzard fault? In my opinion no, it’s the players. I see most ppl sticking it out because they want to get better. I get better as well. As a tank I noticed more. As in I can dodge more stuff and make it easier on dps in this corner or whatever to make it easier on others I will do my best.

1 Like
23

I agree to an extent, but the loot rarity problem is jist as bad, if not worse, in CN. So blizzard, if youre not gonna drop raid loot, at least give us more than 35 anima for it. Thats basically a slap in the face. Same with m+. Either raise the drop chances, or give some sort of meaningful reward for doing the content. And we don’t need loot pińata situations again, but when your run a metric ton of m+ and go through 2+ weeks of CN with maybe a single drop, and nothing else to show for it besides anima? That’s unacceptable. Will blizz ever learn moderation when changing things in game?
Its the same problem with class changes. Very rarely does a class thats under/overpowered get subtle changes to bring it back in line with the rest. Its either nerf it into oblivion, or buff it so much there’s no reason to play anything else.
Cmon blizz, how long you been doing this? And this is always an issue, its complained about by large swathes of the community constantly since day 1. Either figure it out, or stop changing systems at all. There needs to be a middle ground when it comes to stuff like this, and I believe its one of the big things that turns people away from the game after a while. When your favorite class becomes worthless overnight, its a turn off. When you grind out content and have nothing to show for it but 30k gold spent on flasks and repair bills, thats a massive turn off.

8 Likes
24

…what? I mean, seriously…what?

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25

M+ is not meant to be pugged. Play with guildies or friends and guess what? The toxicity that is ruining your life? It just goes away. It no longer exists.

Again, M+ is not meant to be pugged.

26

What ? You heard me. The game was stagnating. M+ in Legion brought a whole breath of fresh air back into it.

2 Likes
27

Nope.

In BFA M+ was the best gearing method for PVE raiders and PVP players. I have to call you out on this.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

1 Like
28

Nope, by far nope. Unless you were paying for a full stack carry or had guildies full stack carrying your alt, Mythic+ was one of the longest and most time consuming gear grinds there was for PvE.

And I have to call you out for never having geared a toon from Mythic+ from scratch without having others carry it for you.

29

BlizZard nerfed M+ loot heading into systemlands because it was the best gearing method for PVE raiders and PVP players.

BlizZard has a history of doing such overreactions as they nerfed PVP gearing to the ground post WoD. WoD had arguably the best PVP gearing method in WoW and in fact was great starting way for PVE players to gear through Ashran.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

30

They also nerfed the raid loot. Which if what you said was true doesn’t make sense.

It’s almost like they nerfed all high end PvE loot.

So that just action disproves what you just said. Like I said : you never full geared a toon from Mythic+ if you think it was “easy” in BfA.

1 Like
31

They did this to help balance PVE gearing compared to PVP. PVE gearing dominated PVP gearing in BFA.

That is why PVE gearing has been throttled in systemlands. But they simply overreacted like BlizZard always does!

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

32

They changed the whole PvP system in SL. You can’t compare it to BfA.

It’s also now where PvP gearing dominates PvE gearing, for PvE.

33

They changed the system for PVP gearing but they had to change and throttle PVE gearing to all make it work.

Right now they have overshot their target and PVE gearing is in worse shape than PVP gearing!

:surfing_woman::surfing_man:

1 Like
34

No, they did not.

Look, you obviously don’t even play the game.

35

Obviously they did and I tested out all the changes in systemlands beta. In fact I discovered early on that gearing in systemlands would be harder for PVE players a there was not much deterministic gearing methods compared to PVP.

I often argued that M+ gearing would be okay if they elevated raiding and PVP gearing to match M+ gearing. Instead BlizZard chose to go backward based on misreading the Classic hype.

PVE gearing right now needs more deterministic routes that mirror PVP gearing.

M+ is the perfect vehicle to do this approach with a badge and vendor system. Granted raiders would complain but then again raiders complain when PVP gearing vendors exist or world quests offer competitive gear.

BlizZard listened to raiders and ended up nuking PVP gearing system which did not work out in Legion or BFA.

Raiders can have their gear and feel rewarded. But they should not infringe upon other gearing avenues either. M+ for a brief moment did eclipse PVE raiding but now BlizZard has gone too far by nerfing too much on the PVE side of things!

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

2 Likes
36

played wow since vanilla and only lvl 29…talk about casual

37

All the loot nerfs came in late. As did the PvP system.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Period.

38

Blizzard: “wHy ArE pEoPlE gEaRiNg Up So QuIcKlY?!?!”

I loved the idea of M+ when it was brought up for Legion (I didn’t bother with the cosmetic side prior,) but its current (mostly BFA actually) iteration tried competing with raids, yet was spammable…which kinda makes no sense and can invalidate some raiding gear.

Then they nerf drop rates and ilvl, yet keep them spammable.

In the end, it’s just about game-play metrics…so the spamming speed runs will likely stay.

It’s not all bad, but there are definitely flaws they could address.

3 Likes
39

I have to wonder if maybe adding something akin to the old badge system to M+, with the number of badges being awarded depending on the key level and if you make time or not, might not smooth out a lot of this. That way there’s some benefit to completing the dungeon even if RNG does not see it fit to bless you with great loot.

It’d also help tamp down on players attempting to run keys solidly beyond their reach just for the loot — with badges being rewarded it makes more sense to wipe out two +5’s than struggling and failing to complete a +8 for example.

1 Like
40

M+ needs a system redesign, not a simple nerf or buff to loot quantity / ilvl. It’s fundamentally broken in that it’s endlessly repeatable for decent quality loot. They made that part of it scale up less than it has in the past, but it still lands just short of Heroic Raid for end-of-dungeon drops, and given the lack of loot across the board, that’s still very very relevant for most players.

WoW is a game that functions on lockouts. Before Mythic+, literally everything over Normal / Leveling Dungeons had a lockout. Heroic Dungeons had a lockout (still did until a hotfix early in Shadowlands), Mythic 0 Dungeons have a lockout, LFR and all Raid Difficulties have a lockout, Torghast only rewards Soul Ash weekly, Warfronts only rewarded relevant loot once per 3 week cycle, World Bosses are once weekly, Visions in 8.3 only rewarded loot once per threshold per week, etc etc.

Lockouts and similar time limited systems are what keep WoW gearing at a reasonable pace without encouraging players to burn themselves out on an endless grind.

Mythic+ is the sole exception. It makes it instantly unhealthy for the game in that capacity, and on top of that, shortens the gear progression side of the game dramatically, which makes more players subscribe on a patch cycle than otherwise would. Pre-M+, It’d take me 2-3 months to gear out at my chosen difficulty level. Post-M+, it ended up being more like 3 weeks.

The recent nerfs have made other content a bit more relevant again, but M+ is still just as unhealthy for the game in its current design. That hasn’t changed. You just need to grind it more now.

IMO, they either need to find a way to add some kind of lockout/limit to it (which I understand wouldn’t be as straightforward as a typical raid lockout) to bring it in line with everything else, or they need to remove loot from it entirely so people ONLY do it for the Great Vault or equivalent system (in which case I believe you should be able to select up to 3 rewards, rather than simply getting more options for your 1 reward, but the massive ilvl jump should probably be toned down somewhat in that case).

The latter would make a lot of people very mad, but it would eliminate most toxic behavior, as the Weekly Vault doesn’t care if you time things or not.

The former would make a slightly lesser amount of a lot of people very mad, but probably not really address your concerns, so I admit I went on a bit of a tangent there with my own peeves about the M+ system.

2 Likes