I’ll be tanking on this character, just won’t be doing as many alts. Oh well I guess raid logging is social interaction.
The trolls derail eachother and it turns into a nightmare.
That’s neither sides arguments fault.
The reason listed in a blue post for removal is innacurate, and should be solidified with a poll.
We haven’t had that yet, regardless of which side of the argument you stand on. Where was the listening done at?
Happy to have a real conversation about pro’s and con’s. Not happy to have it derailed by both parties.
Why is it inaccurate? Because you’ve said so?
Game design isn’t a democracy.
Anti-RDF, the side that gives constructive feedback.
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Ya that other Bloom gets his panties in a bunch sometimes.
You mean Kris Zierhul, one of the original designers from WoTLK who worked on itemization
Ah so one of the ones who didn’t move on and is responsible for retail?
How exactly is retail doing compared to wrath? Blizzard stopped posting the sub counts long ago so we only know how badly they were doing as of WoD.
It’s starting.
I asked simply for a Blizzard Official Poll, since they cite “we agree with the community”.
That was all.
I understand there are two sides, but many factors that go into the two sides. I wholeheartedly believe it is both good and bad if it was implemented.
So, to reiterate, where was the listening to the community that was cited as the reason? (I’ll wait while you get mad and derail it)
Edit: Game design is not a democracy, but saying that they agree with the community eludes to us having a say in it, which is incorrect.
This decision was made under false pretenses, and used the community as a scape goat. Blizzard should own the change and move forward, not pass the buck onto people that had no say.
he literally came back - original designers weren’t happy with the power creep and scaling.
Same reason why they devised sunwell radiance but they felt that wasn’t a very fun way to squish itemization.
Where did they say this? Please quote it.
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You didn’t.
That’s the Blue Post reasoning behind removing RDF.
“We know that the Classic audience is more interested in long-term social engagement, that feeling that comes from reaching out to people, talking to them about how you’re going to group, trying to coordinate, who’s going to do what role walking to the dungeon together, trying to figure out how you’re going to get to the dungeon, who’s going to summon, maybe run into a PVP fight on the way,” Birmingham says. “And then you finally get in there and you have friends that stick together with you.”
Right but you and they didn’t address my concern, the tuning of all raids was based on that ilvl they originally created.
So is that also be addressed? Have they said what their plan for that it?
A lot of classes like Warrior, Fire mage, Hunter, and Combat Rogues scale really well with stats. When you squish ilvl you neuter these specs and ruin the hype for people who want to play them and have fun.
They don’t need to poll for this. This is exactly what Classic was made for. If this doesn’t apply to you, why are you playing Classic exactly?
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this hasn’t even been implemented it is an idea and we wouldn’t even get to test it for at least 6-7 months.
The tuning to naxx was tested and was fine, item lvl scaling is also done in retail all the time - they have practice at this sort of thing. Take a deep breath
I have a community, and I worry about the people starting their journey without one.
I worry that player feedback was not sourced correctly when it is cited as a reason for the change*.
*It wasn’t released until ICC, 3.3.5 but we are 3.3.5 at launch…yada yada. Tired of reading that.
My concern is beyond our sole opinions, and basing this off a community opinion, I simply ask where the communtiy opinion came from. All signs show it is extremely mixed, and we should reevaluate that statement before throwing it into the wind.
Did we make the right decision?
Is the new LFG tool going to be able to replace something that is on everyone’s mind? (Both sides)
Instead of a Yes/No attitude, I would like to get the facts straight first. This topic doesn’t appear to be straightforward and I would imagine we all agree on that.
So no, they don’t listen to the community. Regardless of RDF.
Edit: I look forward to Wrath either way, and if anyone needs a community on Pagle Alliance hit me up. We are always recruiting.
But changes for the community that were not polled or asked for will not help long term quarterly goals, and will slowly tear apart the social fabric of the game.
Which is why I side with #nochanges to everything, including iLvl.
I don’t want to continue derailing this though. I am not Blizzard, and I appreciate your feedback and this discussion! Cheers mate! Keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your input on all topics!
How do we know it was tuned specifically for that ilvl? ICC was a heavily gated raid when it launched, maybe the raid was always easier than we thought and they had to gate it so hard to prevent Heroic guilds from killing LK in the first day.
We have absolutely no idea what kind of math gets tossed around during the creation and testing process of the raid so to me it seems foolish to just assume we know better than the actual devs on this.
warriors and fire mages were only going to see the numbers they are expecting with full bis (which they’ll never get) and when ICC gets the Hellscream’s Warsong 30% buff…has little to do with the ilvl number
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Thats not to mention that the skill level of the average raider is way higher than it was during original wotlk. People will be performing to a much higher degree.
So no response to why wrath always had multiple difficulties which at the highest level most people never killed?
That has nothing to do with what I said.