I think comparing them to the Mage tower is a poor idea. They arent near the high quality content mage tower was. I personally find them sort of boring/annoying due to the sanity mechanic. Mage tower was a lot of “if you had the requisite skill you could whittle the boss down while performing the mechanics.”
This is just “get your cloak upgrades abd research to proceed”.
Now in a group it’s a bit more interesting but then it’s not the solo exp like MT.
I think we are mostly on the same side here, just coming at it from different angles.
I personally lament the lost opportunity, rather than anything else. Visions had potential, and it’s been largely wasted and turned into another boring weekly quest with dressed up visuals, rather than a fun, challenging, repeatable solo player content type.
I haven’t even done my visions this week. I’m not playing that much, I don’t have any inclination to raid at the moment… so why bother? I’ll just hold the vessels till bugs are ironed out? Seems like an odd system.
I honestly don’t see the need to for infinite tries even for the most casual of casual pet battlers. For levels 1-5, you need to kill like 3 trash packs and the boss, this takes like 3 minutes total and you get 3 sanity orbs. Then you will get the cheat death restoration and more upgrades at the tech tree. Then you will get 460-475 gear eventually.
It’s designed to let pet battlers get the max cape eventually.
Even the mage tower wasn’t free though. I had a few alts where I ran out of enough shards or whatever the hell they were called and had to go farm them.
Definitely way easier to get those than the visions, but visions are also much more forgiving than mage towers.
This. Exactly this. Every time I see someone mention this, it is immediately ignore by the “git gud scrubs” crowd. A big problem with the game is the creeping “gogogogo” mentality that is slowly taking over. It becomes especially problematic when you link it up to limited tries, and harsh punishments for failing.
“Lets make content that punishes you by disabling your ability to even do it for a week once you give it a shot, and you’re rushed through it the whole time to boot! Let’s do this despite the fact that you’re paying for the ability to play this content, and locking you out is literally wasting the money you’re spending to enjoy it in the first place. GENIUS!” Such… I don’t know… bi-polar philosophy?
This is dumb hard solo content though.
The Mage tower was insanely fun and I could do it whenever and all day.
This has caps on the tries. Why? 3 times a week, woo, lots of content…
It’s not even authentically hard. The only thing that makes it hard is the fact that you’re rushed through it by that stupid sanity decay. People say “well, it’s a moot point once you do your research!” Thing is, content should be fun and flexible upfront, instead of that being dangled as the reward for putting up with being rushed through the stuff you want to experience when you’re first able to access it.
this.
they have been “inspired” by D3 GR runs here.
thing is D3 makes lining up for the next GR after you just messed one up much easier.
What content? Visions? Yeah no, the “difficulty” there lies in choosing the right class and keeping within a timer. Artificially making something more difficult by attaching a timer has been a hated trope of video games for 30+ years. The Mage Tower on the other hand was skill-based, and players loved that.
idk this new content is hard enough i actually have to use group finder to do some of it so im good with it im actually bothering to rank up my cloak
Sounds good! Let’s just make all the systems consistent then.
Arena should be a weekly single elimination tournament. If you fail, you can always try again next week, and you don’t really deserve arena gear unless you’re good anyway.
You can queue for one BG a week. Hope you win!
Mythics consume the entire party’s key. If you fail, well, you can buy gear from residuum anyway, so it all balances out in the end.
Raids now feature permadeath! Wiping triggers a lockout for the week.
I like these systems! Sounds super fun and challenging. That’ll teach those darn casuals to git gud.
This. I don’t mind them, but if the visions were more like gold (or never ending waves) proving grounds, perhaps more would enjoy?
No entry cost
No failure cost
Moderate to high skill/itemization to complete fully (perhaps allow completion in another way that yields badges to more slowly earn the items, but with a max amount of ranks of the cloak per week - as is current)
The “rushing” excuse is not a legitimate excuse. Look at what the vision is, it’s very very shallow. The only exciting part is the progression in it. It’s the same with mythic plus, people wanting mythic plus without a timer don’t realize that it would just devolve into bloodlusting every pull and not be interesting at all.
The only other way would be to design literal raid bosses for this type of content, and you already have raid bosses, so there is no point in doing that. This is the solo content you guys begged for.
If it exists, it can be complained about.
Oh, let’s include AH lockouts once you post three items. Not three stacks… Three items! Oh, and let’s make the lockouts more immediate if your auction fails to actually sell within a few hours, until you work up the research time to unlock a longer auction availability window!
Let’s also extend this to leveling! you have 1 hour to get 10 new levels once you login, otherwise you can’t even play that character for a week!
LOOK GUYS, We’re just like the heads of the design teams!
The inverse is also true, for your “predicate” above
Wanting more tries is them wanting to fail and learn. They just don’t want to fail, grind up 10k widgets, and then try again.
Agreed, Rabkin.
Simply completing an objective or task the first time with satisfactory performance doesn’t mean learning has taken place. Learning is a change of behavior due to experience. Whether the changed behavior (ex: popping cd’s earlier than before) yields a positive result (kill the big bad) requires repetition, among many other things.
You’re being hyperbolic, you get 4 to 5 tries a week and eventually the tech tree will make you win.
And here we have a fundamental problem with many aspects of the end-game content here. At least with the M+, the rushing comes AFTER you’ve grown accustomed to the flow of the dungeon at your own pace. So, I mean, this fact alone separates the design of the two examples in question. You can also keep pushing those M+ keys, whereas with the visions, you’re boned for a week if you mess up. Here’s the thing: We WANT to do the content, and take in what there is to offer. The problem is, we can’t, until we deal with being frustrated for a while first by grinding out the currency to purchase the research that will let us take things in stride better. By that point, the fun factor of these visions is at greater risk of being a moot point, because people are good and irritated by being rushed in the first place. Compound this problem for people who like classes/specs, but can’t clear the content, because it was designed in such a way as to only allow certain classes/ spec able to solo it with less trouble.
So yes, the “rushing” thing is a legitimate excuse, because it functions inversely to how mythic+ handles the same basic premise, while also not keeping you from enjoying it should you screw the pooch, and die/lose all your sanity.