First point - Why respond to every one of these threads? Do you feel like you’re educating me? Guess what, you’re not.
Secondly - This is not just an angry because I lost a key level post, this is an I’m fed up with this happening over the course of this expansion, post.
Blizzard has worked their asses off and continually throw wood on the fire that is the social construct of this game. Dungeons, community, doing things together. Blizz has also said that they do see complaints and check the forums, so yes, I do hope they find this or any of the other thousands of posts and decide to make a calm decision about it for the betterment of all players. Finding a way to flag, debuff, mark, or otherwise just make it apparent to future party members that someone has left a group of their own volition should be fairly simple to come up with. I get that there are emergencies that happen and people have to jet. There’s gotta be a workaround.
And to your last point - 1/5 players shouldn’t be able to gamble and screw over a key for the rest of the group intentionally. Gambling on people knowing their stuff, everyone’s fine with. Gambling on people’s sanity and hoping they stay in the group they queued for - we shouldn’t have to gamble on that, it’s expected.
This is literally a contradiction in the next sentence lol. When is it OK for them to leave? When you think the run is done. Pretty much the definition of entitlement.
Great. So come up with a system then and I will tell you what’s wrong with it. If it cannot be abused and only punishes the right people I will support it 100%.
As I have done this song and dance countless times I don’t like your chances but hey maybe you have some idea the last however many didn’t have. Not likely but I’m listening.
Okay, so how do you determine someone who left for bad reasons versus someone who left for good reasons?
Let’s use two realistic situations to demonstrate why this is not going to happen:
One person joins a group and leaves because they’re toxic and trolling your group.
One person joins a group, makes a mistake, and is then berated by someone in the group with no constructive points to fix the mistake and then leaves.
If someone leaves after being berated by a group member or couple of group members, do they deserve a penalty? Is there a way to separate the justified leavers versus the unjustified leavers?
No. This is a subjective issue that lies on the responsibility of the player to form better groups. You’re not always going to get a good group and that’s the way it goes. That’s life.
You are entitled in believing that you should be rewarded for your time, but sometimes things just happen. Get over it.
You have the right to be wrong, and I won’t try to deprive you of that.
I respond to misinformation whenever I can. I don’t feel like I’m educating you. I consider people who come in guns blazing like you to be beyond help. Every once in awhile, one of you surprises me and actually realizes you’re wrong and acknowledges it, but that’s very rare. I’m educating the people who may read this who haven’t formed an opinion yet, and I’m trying to protect them from taking yours.
So over the course of an entire expansion you somehow haven’t figured out how to improve your selection process to avoid this problem, and blame your failings on the game. Instead of trying to figure out what you could do to fix your problem, you just keep doing the same thing over and over, with the same result, and keep getting mad at the wrong people.
They’re strangers ffs. Why do you expect them to care about you? You clearly don’t care about them. You expect them to stick it out on your behalf whether they want to or not. You don’t get to decide what other people do. If you don’t like that, stop inviting strangers. Invite people you know, who you trust to behave the way you want. If you insist on inviting strangers, you need to accept that some of them will disappoint you, in any number of ways. And you need to do a MUCH better job of trying to avoid inviting people who are likely to leave early.
So maybe some sort of punishment or flagging of that player isn’t possible, or there are other systemic issues with it (like someone’s kid needs them) . I think my frustration is that I feel there’s no recourse as a player, especially the keyholder.
If I chose that player when I had many many sign up and they leave selfishly, it punishes everyone’s time, but it also punishes something that I’ve earned. Your first response may be that I should “just get over it” or “hah, you lost your gamble,” but I think we could so something more.
Maybe pause the key timer so that another player could be invited and pulled into the key (maybe at some time penalty). Or maybe allow the key to remain the same if there’s a leaver, rather than guarantee it drops a level.
How about this: instead of punishing the quitter, remove the punishment for the key holder.
Option 1: you can full reset if you’re less than XX minutes into it (maybe 10 minutes?)
Option 2: you can pause the timer, exit the dungeon and find new member. (this would lead to more kicks, but it happens everywhere else, so I don’t see why not in mythic+)
Your recourse is preventative. You have the power to invite any 4 players to join your key. If you look at all the people who apply as nothing more than an IO score who can help you complete the key, why are you surprised that they don’t value you or your time?
Ask Crossbless what his process is for inviting people to his M+ pugs. You’ll very likely be blown away by all the things you’re not doing that could help you avoid the situations that are frustrating you.
If you want to put groups together quickly, you need to be prepared for many of them to fail. If you want groups made of people who aren’t going to quit at the first sign of trouble, you will need to invest a lot of time and effort to locate those people in a sea of strangers. Before you ever put the key in, you’ll need to find out why they want your key, and communicate what you’re expecting. Everyone who applies is looking for some benefit. If the benefit they want only comes from finishing, it is more likely they will stay to the end than someone whose benefit only comes from finishing on time. If someone isn’t patient enough to wait while you talk with them, or talk with the other people while you form up, they may not be patient enough to stay if things aren’t perfect.
Instead of looking for ways to visit retribution on people who quit, you should be exploring every possible option for how you can avoid grouping with those people in the first place. Every single person who has left one of your groups is someone you invited.
LOL. Just go grab a sammich while they lose their key.
I don’t see why that’s an issue. Either you can complete on time or not. I don’t care how many tries it takes (though it might cause PuGer’s to look for a new group). If people have too much trouble with a key, then they can always downgrade it voluntarily.
I don’t think that scenario would happen because the players can police it themselves. OTOH, when somebody leaves, the keyholder can’t do anything but be punished.
The issue is that you’re suggesting an “improvement” for leavers that actually incentivizes it. If someone has a key that they assume their current group can’t time, why wouldn’t they just leave and not waste their time? At least with a reduction in the key, they have to think if they want to bring the key back up to the level it was or stick it out. Seems small, but when you consider a 14 key versus a 15 key, that’s pretty big.
Players can prevent it from happening by talking to their group. Idk when the last time I had people leave was. A long time ago though because u actually talk to people in my mmo
Good point. If its looking close people would leave because they will assume that someone else will leave when it gets closer. Sure the key wouldn’t go down but how many times would you want to pull the first half of a dungeon over and over lol.
It becomes a game of chicken to see who leaves when lol.
I believe the actual suggestion was to deal with people who are NOT the key holder leaving. So this wouldn’t be possible if I understand what they were saying correctly.
Not new perse but dialed up to 11 because the keyholder is likely to leave if it is looking close which means you don’t want to be the sucker that stayed and the keyholder leaves to protect their key so you might as well leave before they do so you waste as little time as possible. It would become a cycle very quickly.
And yea almost no one leaves my groups because I tend to run with friends and or people on the same page as me and my pug keys tend to go smoothly if it’s just a weekly key on my alt or something.