The title got my hopes up they changed their mind about the right thing, dungeon finder.
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found the RP-PvE player
Yo im joking, LFR and LFD suck.
The group finder system that lets you create a group and people can apply for it is far superior.
I was actually surprised when somebody liked my comment of LFR in classic. this whole classic community is going to make classic just like retail to the point where it dies just like retail.
If PVP Servers (in name only, because c’mon theres only like one or two true pvp servers) are full of toxic players that are toxic to their own faction members, I’ll stick to my carebear server.
For example, people who are on Benediction aren’t really on a PvP server.
the problem is the culture. you play horde, so you get childish responses. on alliance, the majority of responses I get are actual answers, not “google it” or some other troll answer.
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Sure, but with what frequency? A great group is great, but it only speaks to the quality of the experience if most groups are great. If you make me sit through 7 anti-social groups to find 1 good group, I’m going to appreciate that last group but strongly reconsider whether all those hours waiting to find it were worth burning.
Maybe. I’ve certainly heard of older versions of the game having something resembling LFD implemented into them and the slightly more social air of dungeons remaining intact. As far as I’m concerned if we can have both that’s an acceptable compromise to me.
I have a theory that it’s actually the gameplay of Modern WoW itself that’s behind the anti-social behavior. My theory is based on the things that players talk about in older versions of the game. It’s usually things like pointing out tricky pulls or discussing strategies for dealing with them, commenting on the outcomes of tricky pulls, or needing buffs / mana. And sometimes those things spiral off into short exchanges or jokes being made.
In Modern WoW I once que’d a dungeon without a shield on accident. Most of my tanking abilities were disabled. Not only did that not cause any meaningful setbacks, but nobody even commented on it. I feel like gameplay that bad going unpunished is a strong indication of bad game design. Like… maybe we should just not have 4 different difficulty modes for starters. Seems a little excessive. Just a bit.
But also maybe DPS should be scared of getting aggro. And maybe Healers shouldn’t be so bored and unengaged with their main job that they start DPSing just to feel like they’re contributing a bit more. And maybe tanks with one arm tied behind their back should struggle a little?
My point being, it feels like people are silent because they aren’t encouraged or rewarded for communication. In Vanilla, reminding people about Captain Greenskin or other awkward pulls that require some nuance has a more direct contribution to a smooth run. Maybe the answer is just… better game design that challenges players at least a tiny bit.
I would find it interesting at the very least to see RDF put into Wrath Classic and observe for myself whether dungeons are social. I distinctly remember them being social back in the original Wrath, so it’s not as if Wrath is too new a test subject.
A lot of work went into building the open world zones and quests of Northrend.
That’s literally the leveling experience. It’s appropriate that completing a dungeon with a group is a stand out event which happened during that experience.
Like, running a dungeon should rightly stand out in your mind as memorable.
It isn’t going to be difficult to find groups for heroics because, while they may level at their own pace, the player-base all conglomerates at the expansion’s level cap.
It isn’t about whether the experience of running a dungeon is social or not. It’s about the effect RDF’s implementation has on the sense of community that pervades a server. RDF eliminates most of the cause players have to communicate with one another; and so that sense of community breaks down.
You’re right, in late TBCC it is difficult to get a group for some things – especially if you’re trying to get a group for ZF or something. That’s because you missed the point at which that content was being frequented. The community has moved on and that’s okay.
That’s just the nature of Classic content imo. It’s time sensitive – it’s one of the quintessential flaws that makes the game what it is and feel the way it does to play.
The second you add something like RDF to address that it’s been changed, and becomes something else entirely – and that thing contains substantially less substance when we consider the concept of community.
Is this anything to celebrate?
I mean before someone posted that thread about them thinking of removing it, no one was even talking about it.
It’s not like they changed their mind because of an outcry from the community.
They had already planned to have it in when everyone was complaining that they said they wouldn’t.
I’m not going to pretend to know what blizzard did or didn’t have planned at any given time, dude.
This thread started with a conversation about the quest helper; and I’m just out here to say that I’m disappointed that they caved on that front.
Between allowing people to download and install questie and spoon feeding people easy-mode I think the scales tipped the wrong way in this case.
Sorry, you’re answering to me as though I was talking to you directly but I wasn’t.
And just to point out, they didn’t cave. People weren’t even aware that they had planned to not include the in game quest helper until someone here posted a months old interview.
People were having discussions on why it shouldn’t be removed when it’s not going to be.
I was moreso talking to OP and his thoughts on the matter. The fact that they are including the quest helper doesn’t necessarily mean theirs hope for LFD/RDF because that decision had nothing to do with the discourse being had on these forums.
If someone never posted that interview, we would of never gotten that Wowhead post.
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I like reading the quests too.
Such a thing doesn’t exist. Pretend otherwise all you want, the insular Discord / guild bubble you may be part of is not the playerbase at large. Sure, community might exist on dying servers, but thats the thing, nothing else exists which is why they’re dying.
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RDF groups are no better or worse than LFG tool groups. IIRC you can still join RDF as a partial group and just let the tool fill up missing spots. It also looks to your server first then goes cross realm to finish populating.
As for your other point, what I really think would’ve been a better change is to add cross-realm invites over Bnet tags functionality. I THINK this is a thing in Retail, not super sure, but that would’ve removed the “then I cant ever see them again!” issue. With an extra toggle to opt in and out of crossrealm queues, it would’ve canceled both of the major complaints about the tool by its detractors.
However, Blizzard decided to remove it to make paid boosts more attractive. Any PR spin they might weave around it is just false.
…But being able to interact with the community is the only means by which you can measure a community’s existence. An anti-social community is an oxymoron.
I’m perfectly content to wait hours for a group if the group experience is decent. That’s what alt+tab is for. As for the latter part, that’s just defeatism with a smile. Pointless.
World of Warcraft is not just a set of train tracks to facilitate the movement of the hype train that serve no purpose once it has passed. You might see it that way, but that’s purely a matter of bias.
And yet one which still holds weight in society if you and I being here and caring about something stands testament.
Like, whether you like it or not, some semblance of community exists; and there’s things we can and things can’t change if we want to preserve it.
Blizz- just look at this thread and all of the people who do not want RDF. We are practically screaming out to stick your guns and the popular opinion. Thank you
These are not remotely the same kind of QoL feature in my opinion. Quests in vanilla WoW were much more “adventure-like” they got pretty crazy with them. Making them span multiple continents and have huge chains, with lots of interesting little bits.
The fact is, Blizzard simply stopped innovating on quest design for the most part after vanilla. They may have even gotten worse generally speaking. They shifted the focus to convenient hubs, cool looking zones, enemies, items etc., and having an over-arching storyline (Illidan, LK).
So having a nicely organized quest helper in-game, when the vast majority of quests are just rehashes of the same kind of quest from another zone… really just allows players to focus on the parts they care about. Whether that’s talking with your guild, practicing your rotation, trying to weave in as much profession work as you can etc.
In a perfect world they have better quests, and the need for the quest helper is gone (making the game more like Elden Ring)… but the quests are what they are. So unless you’re doing something really cool like the smourne quest, it’s probably only going to enhance your experience to have the QH.
LFD on the other hand, really does interfere with the sense of community in the game.
I’m conflicted on RDF…
Because I feel like people are just going to cross-server dungeon spam all the way to 80.
As the legends foretold.
So what? They will still need to do quests and dailies for reputation, raids, ect the old-fashioned way. If cross server BGs are ok, so are cross server dungeons.