Very valid opinion. For me personally i have played since bc. I have been through every gearing system. I still find that patch cadences which keeps the game fresh is the most importsnt thing.
However i agree that gearing is painful atm mostly due to the pain of pushing alts up through the honor grind. I pwrsonally think if they made upgrades account wide it would be a easy fix for next season.
I am not like most i liked wotlk pvp gearing and like power progression in mmorpgs, but i understand the hate for the boring larts of thr grind ie upgrades via bgs.
My opinion is you either have power progression or your dont. Ie have gear difference due to rating or remove gear fully out of pvp honor and conquest gear included.
If we assume your argument is valid - if the “participation rate” is only really impacted by the health of the overall game, then there isn’t much incentive to invest time and money into time-restricted unique class sets.
You are basically saying participation has been consistent throughout the years when the rewards have varied from unique, to recolors, to armor type based.
So then, given there is no real evidence that unique class sets would make any tangible difference… doing less work is cheaper than doing a lot of work.
Rewards are obviously relevant and impact participstion however my point was that if content is slow and people have to wait a year based on current raid parse and boss kill metrics it seems like once spmebody gets bored and leaves its unlikely a patch brings them back and they wait for the next xpac.
I just think people blame lots of reasons why participation is bad in shadowlands but forget the patch cadensce was the worst and slowest it has ever been. Also these patches dont seem to be brining back lapsed players from previous tiers. I personally think patch cadesnce is thr most important thing in wow or any mmorpg for overally health. Blizzard needs to focus on keeping people subbed i
Luckily for wow expansions seem to always bring back players
So then participation hasn’t been consistent throughout the years. There would be a negative trend towards less distinct rewards and a positive trend to more distinct ones.
Or it has been more or less consistent, in which case the unique class sets won’t really make a difference, but cost more time/money to implement. At which point, we may as well be asking them to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Yes because its all we have. Its better to look at true facts rather than player opinions. Old proportion data of participation is better than some random players opinion.
Maybe its different for you, but the game basically plays the same. We are not comparing guild wars 1 to guildwars 2. Wow from 10 years ago to today if you remove the graphics difference is the same game with changes to system’s and to classes but only slighty to the cadual gamer. Somebody that played in mop could pick up wow and k ow exactly how to play. The game isnt hugely different.
But i will still go back to the fact that data from the devs is better than your opinion on the state which is not backed up by anything
We have data that shows sharp decreases in Arena participation over the course of Shadowlands. We could look to that but you prefer to stick to data from 8 + years ago because it suits this forced narrative.
No, the MOP tweet is not all we have, but even if it was, we’ve already established that it’s from EIGHT years ago.
Not according to popular opinion. Many people complain about the current direction of PVP and prefer older iterations.
Not backed up by anything… except the fact that we saw a huge decrease in Arena participation as the course of Shadowlands has gone by.
Sorry but you’re just not going to convince anyone with data from 8 years ago. Do you know how long 8 years is? 8 year olds have cell phones nowadays. They’ll be able to drive in 8 more years.
Link yiyr arena participation declines then look at the same declines to raid parses or boss kills by week. Its the same proportionate drop. Unless raiding also had a problem like pvp gearing that caused the exact same drop.
You cant convince me after looking at raiding numbers that pvpers is a niche like your original argument. You started this by doomering on pvp compared to pve i dont agree and i will use proportinate data from 8 years ago as it might be old but its still better than your opinion or any forum users opinion. These same forums asked for titan forging
Doomering pvp in a arena forum saying its a niche to blizzard now based on some baseless opinion, you gotta be a troll or something lol
PVE drop-off still doesn’t even come close to PVP drop-off this expansion. You also forget about M+, which is included in PVE, and has more participation than both raiding and arena combined.
No – it isn’t. How can you even say this when, by your own admission, the only data you’ve looked at is your tweet from 8+ years ago?
I’m starting to gather that. No amount of evidence will convince you that your narrative is false. You have your data from, checks notes, 2014, which was 8 years ago. That’s the foundation you are building your entire analysis off of. All of the data on PVP vs. PVE streams, partipcation in Arena vs. Raid and M+, PVP Youtube content vs. PVE Youtube content, forum activity, etc. is all for naught – because of one tweet that said BATTLEGROUNDS had same or equal participation as LFR.
That’s all he mentioned, BATTLEGROUNDS and LFR, but you’ve extrapolated this to mean PVE and PVP have the same participation. That’s not how statistics work. If no data in the world will convince you otherwise, then this conversation is nonproductive. You are free to believe whatever false narrative you’d like, but believing it wont suddenly translate into Blizzard focusing more on PVP. Because, as I’ve been trying to tell you this entire time, and as all the data suggests, PVP is pretty niche nowadays.
bliz needs to put time into increasing rewards instead of increasing grind for the same or less rewards
the entire dopamine feedback loop revolves around the rewards and they keep cheaping out with stuff like this and rep grind style currency acquisition
yeah i know actual fresh content and fresh rewards are the most expensive to dev but they act like they have a tight budget when the game has always been colossally profitable - they’re getting budgeted on whether they increased profit each year instead of overall profitability
You said no amount of evidence can convince me? You have not shared any facts only opinion, no sources of any data you are bringing up to say pvp is niche end game.
You say wow is dying and pvp is dying compared to kther wow content making pvp niche. You share no numbers to prove this
Its becausw you dont have any data and you are just assuming pvp is dying compared to pve whereas its likely both pvp and pve are both propornately dying. But pvp is likely still high proportinately so putting it as a niche of end game wow next to things that are actually niche like pet battles is laughable
