Blizz you gotta separate out XP-Off Twinking

[Hayhey-bleeding-hollow (Hayhey)]

Thw cure for this is to remove deserter debuff for those willing to bail.

[Eilane-kilrogg]

Ran into a Paladin ( 80-89 bracket ) using an agility heirloom weapon, no 2nd trinket, no PvP talents and their reasoning? It’s not their main.

https://i.imgur.com/mFR7kgf.jpg

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

As of 8.1.5 PTR tuning.
The majority of Raid Epics will be below Dungeon and Quest Items in Item level as noted below.

80 - Raid Tier ilvl 102 - 8.1.5 Blue - ilvl 105
85 - Raid Tier ilvl 112 - 8.1.5 Blue - ilvl 113

This is looking forward, but it looks like Dungeon and Quest items will surpass Static pieces of older gear, especially when scaled on a leveling character.

[Oäk-bloodhoof (Oäk)]

BGS in a nutshell

[Voroneg-amanthul (Voroneg)]

Ohhh hey look everyone, yet another clueless person saying that gear is the problem when in reality it’s busted class / specs. I bet they have that funny math too like in the other thread.

If you are so adamant that gear is not the problem, why is most of your gear above the heirloom baseline of iL41? Prove on your example that gear does not matter. Do not use any gear above heirloom baseline of your level. Then your statement about fotm class/specs being a more crucial factor than gear iL disparity will have far more weight. Because its easy to say you can survive on minimum wage when you and your cronies make millions. And before you point fingers to me wearing legendary item that worth 2 baseline, I would happily abide by the gear downscaling suggestion on all of my pieces including legendary inside PvP Instance if my xp is off. Would you?

[Sandyclaws-tichondrius]

through enchants alone you generate an additional 48 INT and 34 STAM

Something that all levelers can achieve as sell. Thanks for pointing that out.

Average person levels through a bracket in a half day or so?

Good, you’ve acknowledged that time in bracket is minimal and makes one wonder what’s the crux of their crying? Is it that they aren’t leveling fast enough? It certainly can’t be that silly thing as wanting to be competitive, can it? I mean we have levelers that are showing up with 8 pieces of gear missing and they expect to be on par with someone fully geared. You think that that person missing 8 pieces should only be at a 20% disadvantage too?

This gear disparity is a joke of a crutch if this is what you expect everyone to believe is the major problems.

48 INT and 34 STAM is about 70% additional stats to a full-heirloom equipped player

And their it is, the busted math that everyone clings to. Can levelers not obtain these enchants? It certainly goes a long way in helping them level.

Here’s some homework for you, How different are these stats on your heirloom gear that you are referring to versus what I have on currently, discounting enchants?

So is it a reasonable expectation that levelers on top of heirlooms fully enchant everything and farm BiS to remain competitive?

Enchants are a very reasonable expectation and that leaves you with 4 pieces of gear to keep up to date:

Feet - can be bought from a vendor for a mark of honor
Belt - can be bought from a vendor for a mark of honor
Bracer - multiple quests/dungeon/AH/professions to obtain
Gloves - multiple quests/dungeon/AH/professions to obtain

Is that soooo hard to maintain 4 pieces of gear once you obtain enchants that you can’t do it yet have the audacity to come here and use words like competitive in a complaint about gear in the same paragraph no less?

https://imgur.com/uLw9ACH

This was taken after the bg, notice the healing ‘disparity’. I am beginning to think that some of you just wanna cry to be crying and can’t accept some are better. Some have taken the time to get better gear, learn their class, and most importantly how to play in a team environment.

With your 20%, I would be limited to healing for only 8k total? Perhaps if they did less whining throughout the match and actually contributed to the game…

This is a wall of text written from a clearly angry place so I’m going to skip most of it, but the fact that you think that BiS gear plus full enchants is an acceptable barrier for entry for random BGs while leveling is insane. At least Juga in his 8,000 posts tries to at least acknowledge blatant disparity (some enchants are too strong, gems are bad etc), your only thoughts are “BiS it or get to 120” ? It’s crazy. It is the opinion of a crazy person. I mean keep doing your thing; between you and kang and ninja and juga you’ve managed to balloon every twink thread to over 100 (several over 1,000!) replies and making 5 of the top 10 threads be perpetually about twinking issues in this forum so you’re doing “levellers” work better than they ever could but for the love of Jennifer Love Hewitt, you need to chill out.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

It’s too bad out of the thousand ballooned posts they’ve added, few add value. It’s cumbersome scrolling past so many of their insults and ad hominem to get to the meat and potatoes of the conversation. I don’t understand why this subject infuriates them like that. What happened to the good old days when people agreed to disagree?

[Astunishing-amanthul]

BiS gear plus full enchants is an acceptable barrier for entry for random BGs

“BiS it or get to 120”

I don’t see that anywhere. You are putting words into people’s mouths.

Nowhere does it say that everyone should have BiS to be allowed into casual PvP Instances. This is absurd and would kill Intanced PvP faster than dividing it into 30 brackets

But the fact that there should be some form of barrier preventing scrubs from getting their face owned and then crying on forums has been overlooked for many many years.

Noone complains about that even LFR has minimum iL entry level requirements. Well, guess what, iL entry requirements are far more crucial for PvP than LFR, but unlike LFR they’re still not enforced for PvP. Its just mind boggling.

So once again, twinks are not a problem, but gear scaling, or more precisely, lack of thereof is.

Scrubs are not prevented from joining Instanced PvP lacking slots and having iL 10, 20, even 30 points lower than a heirloom baseline provides at their level.

Elitist xp-off tbaggers inside the Instanced PvP are not getting their gear downscaled which is higher than heirloom baseline by 40, 70, even 100 points.

Blizzard doesn’t do anything until a critical point and then just applies a knee jerk blanket approach requiring a least dev effort and divides the brackets instead of addressing the root cause of a problem called maniacs who infinitely abuse gear iL disparity inside Instanced PvP.

What is not clear I don’t even

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

If you going to make so many 109s with xpoff, why disable them on purpose?

abuse gear

And this again?

[Portemian-amanthul]

@Kangmurloc-dark-iron

@Astunishing-amanthul

abuse gear

And this again?

Infinitely? Yes.
Temporary? No.
When a BiS twink dings into next bracket, they have to spend time and money to become BiS again. This provides non-twinks a cooldown period during which the twink is not PvPing.
Xp-off twinks staying BiS in any bracket permanently are not providing non-twinks that cooldown period. Twinks are going to be in that specific bracket in a month, in a year time, because of a ridiculous gear advantage they have over scrubs who join PvP Instances half naked and expect a tie on a silver platter. So while the first step is definitely

@Welfarê-silvermoon

Set a minimum ilevel that must be met in order for you to participate within instanced PvP

and that suggestion should be upvoted to the top above all else, it is not enough for twinks and non-twinks to actually meet in the middle. Every bracket has a such high end gear that is still absurdly higher than a baseline. And while such high end gear is great for wargames and WPvP, it is a bane of casual Instanced PvP, and should be brought in line with a standard heirloom baseline provided in that given bracket below max level, which

@Tarjana-amanthul

Set an item level cap within the Instanced PvP on each item piece for xp-off characters

would take care of

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

Some co-workers have informed me of a modern movement where
“becoming disabled makes them happy.”
The elective procedure here would be refusal of obtaining and equipping gear/items in order to replicate disablement.
Would this be accurate in our Brackets within World of Warcraft too?

[Portemian-amanthul]

Yes.
Scrubs have been showing up undergeared expecting a silver lining platter for far too long.
Blizzard, Its time for

@Welfarê-silvermoon

Set a minimum ilevel that must be met in order for you to participate within instanced PvP

please.

[Neeralak-quelthalas (Neeralak)]

Real answer to this problem Is to remove the xp lock feature from the game, not being able to lvl up a character with bgs just because a bunch of cowards get mad at non twinkers, Is absolute trash, we are paying every stupid month to play a game and get fun, and this xp lock feature only ruins the pvp system, if u all want some competitive pvp then shut up and go for it at lvl 120 bgs, otherwise you are just a bunch of cowards farming easy gp

[Frozengrip-amanthul]

@Neeralak-quelthalas

remove the xp lock feature from the game

This won’t happen. See:

@Jwlx-shuhalo

“Just remove the experience disable feature! Nobody twinks anyways”

Believe it or not, the twink player-base is quite alive and well. We have an official website that is viewed by thousands of users on a daily basis, and we are growing by the day.
We hold annual tournaments, weekly wargames, and spontaneous events whenever we feel the urge to amp things up. Destroying our community by disabling the experience toggle feature is a guaranteed way to lose my subscription, and is an insult to someone like me who has contributed so much to this playstyle. It may be a troll gimmick to you guys, but I’ve put too much time & effort into this to sit idly by and watch it get destroyed.

Get good while you can son, because at max level you will have to.
Here, let me help you to ease into casual PvP from a non-twink perspective:

@Welfarê-silvermoon

Set a minimum ilevel requirement that must be met in order for you to participate within instanced PvP

And from the twink perspective we offer this:

@Tarjana-amanthul

Set an item level cap within Instanced PvP on each gear piece for xp-off characters to a heirloom baseline for that character level

Deal?

[Idun-wyrmrest-accord (Idun)]

Oh good grief. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re lying.

In this case, on this topic, yes, it does.

When the argument boils down to, “There’s no advantage to twinking”, that is a lie.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

When was that ever an argument?

[Orbai-tichondrius]

do you just sit in the forums and bash the twink community?

[Varamyr-arthas]

When the argument boils down to, “There’s no advantage to twinking”, that is a lie

Who is arguing that!?

I have never seen anyone make such a ridiculous claim, and if anyone has I’ll be first in line to say that it’s incorrect.

Of-bloody-course there’s an advantage to twinking… nobody with two brain cells to rub together would make that statement seriously. This thread is discussing how big of an advantage twinks have, and how prevalent they are, and whether that merits separating them from the rest of the player base.

[Dabus-kaelthas]

Separation doesn’t doesn’t really help anyone as the queue times for both xp on and off would be horrible.

The only fix that makes sense to me and as narrow minded as it may seem, remove the ability to “twink” in instanced pvp. Bring legion instanced pvp back for non rated battlegrounds.

I am sure people who are tired of 120 pvp or are simply unsatisfied with end game do not like this idea but it wouldn’t stop you from turning your xp off in your favorite bracket and pwn there as “Skill” and “Experience” would contribute much more than gear. would be nice imo.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

As of 8.1.5 Quest rewards will offer the best possible options.

Tides of Vengeance Content Update Notes - Blog - Blue Tracker - World of...

All Quest rewards from Classic through the Warlords of Draenor expansion now have a chance to upgrade up to Epic quality.

• Item-levels of Rare and Epic quest rewards in Classic through Warlords of Draenor have been increased slightly in some cases.
• Unique items that drop from rare enemies in Classic through Mists of Pandaria content now also have a chance to upgrade in quality.

What will we hear next? “Separate questers”
Once again, Blizzard rewards the active players.