Blizz you gotta separate out XP-Off Twinking

[Byla-kaelthas]

It’s stupid that resto does more damage than elemental

[Tortuyo-zuluhed (Tortuyo)]

Had one in a dungeon also and flame shock hit harder then my mind blast and lava burst and lightning bolt bot hit 2-3 times as hard as mind blast.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

Yep, it is always nice to see 20s doing well in the 20-29 bracket while being the lower end of the spectrum. Yet somehow they make it all work.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

with a engineering helm giving her 27 intellect.

Yep, I’ve noticed this engineering helm on quite a few people. It’s 20+ ilvls higher than the bracket gear, so that could be something they tone down. I know it’s a profession item, but that ilvl discrepancy shouldn’t be there.

[Jadei-shadowsong (Jadei)]

I’m liking my druid too. Dinged 119 tonight and having a lot of fun pvping that bracket in quest gear.

[Idun-wyrmrest-accord (Idun)]

Bad BGs are going to happen regardless of twinks in the match or not. I see no reason to separate the players honestly.

Because you’re being dishonest.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

How am I being dishonest? Maybe it’s something people don’t want to hear but definitely not dishonest.

[Myninja-llane (Myninja)]

Yep, I’ve noticed this engineering helm on quite a few people. It’s 20+ ilvls higher than the bracket gear, so that could be something they tone down. I know it’s a profession item, but that ilvl discrepancy shouldn’t be there.

Crafting items don’t scale that I’m aware of, so perhaps it can be approached from that angle (i.e. make them scale when created). This could also open up more gearing options if they then remove the level requirement on some craftable pieces.

[Varamyr-arthas]

Oh good grief. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean they’re lying.

[Vendorioc-wyrmrest-accord]

when you are being slammed by multiple characters who are geared 60 or more ilevels above you, at the same level, and in a group of similar characters, skill has very little to do with it.

Kneeshooter,

This is becoming more and more of an issue in 120 BGs too. Those folks who are able to get Mythic+ and Mythic raid gear are increasing the ilvl disparity more and more each day as higher level content is released. That’s simply due to a fundamental design philosophy on the part of the dev team. Does everyone have the potential, emphasis on potential ability to run those? Yes. In practical terms though we are not. This is also the fundamental issue with twinking as a whole. The folks with the ability and inclination to get the best gear for their bracket are also the ones who will come to dominate. Fortunately, or unfortunately, it’s a basic aspect of the core game design.

I’ve been curbstomped in all brackets as I’ve leveled through, in the brackets where I twink, and I’ve also had great games with real competition. In the end, it comes down to each player’s goals and his/her ability to adapt to their situation in the BG. For example, when leveling my Rogue I went Subtlety to focus on healers or defend flags because I don’t have the reflexes nor did I have the gear to go against the really strong folks. I could, however, still contribute in small, but significant ways. I’ve also had to accept that in some BGs my side was going to get wrecked and hope the opposition weren’t jerks and went for the quick win instead of farming.

[Eilane-kilrogg]

But BGs are here to PvP, not to level. Them adding experience to BGs doesn’t make their primary purpose to level. The solution is to just remove XP from BGs like it was in the past and let the people that actually want to PvP…PvP.

Maybe we turn the epic BGs into the experience granting ones only? PvE objectives give PvE rewards -.^

[Tarjana-amanthul]

OP, separating twinks from common player pool is blaming the player, not the game.
Sweeping the problem under the carpet is treating the symptoms, not the cause, and it is not going to make the cause go away, but will make it worse.
The first step of solving a problem is admitting there is a problem.
The problem has a name. Gear Disparity.

Based on my:

@Tarjana-amanthul

earlier post

Solution:

Set an item level cap inside the Instanced PvP on each item piece for xp-off characters to a heirloom baseline for that character level

Reason: Twinks should have a choice:

Turn xp-on and own face, but level out of the bracket eventually. Next PvP bracket their gear will be mediocre. They will have to rely on their skill to gain competitive advantage.

or

Turn xp-off and have their ridiculous gear advantage squished to a heirloom baseline iL inside PvP Instance while their xp is off. They will have to rely on their skill to gain competitive advantage.

e.g.

1. A level 58 gnome engineer has Sonic Booster x2 equipped.
2. Gnome engineer turns xp off and joins 50-59 PvP instance.
3. Sonic Booster scales down to iL58 (the heirloom iL at character level 58).
4. Gnome engineer turns xp-on and joins 50-59 PvP Instance.
5. Sonic Booster is iL95 inside a PvP Instance (because its wielder has experience set to “on”).
6. Gnome engineer dings 60 in a couple of BG wins laughing in ultrasound pitch all the way.
7. Gnome engineer joins 60-69 PvP Instance.
8. Gnome engineer finds Sonic Booster does not give such a huge competitive advantage that it gave in a 50-59 PvP bracket.
9. Gnome engineer turns xp-off hoping to keep abusing the gear advantage anyway.
10. Gnome engineer joins a 60-69 PvP Instance.
11. Sonic Booster scales down to iL60 inside the PvP Instance (because character xp is set to “off”), giving even less of an advantage.
12. Gnome engineer goes to forums and complains that it is unfair to have gear scaling down inside PvP Instances to a heirloom iL of a character who’s experience is set to “off”.
13. All of us unleash full kekeke at gnome engineer and explain why it is fair to punt twinks in the gear.
14. All of us ride into Gilnean shore sunset after a well balanced battleground without 1 shotting maniacs is well played.
15. ???
16. The end?
17. Not really. Next PvP Instance.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

The problem has a name.

Correct, “Self Imposed Gear Disparity”.

[Afks-dunemaul (Afks)]

Next thing we will see are players wanting queues separated by ilvl. It’s easier to complain about imbalance than work on gearing up.

[Tarjana-amanthul]

Next thing we will see are players wanting queues separated by ilvl.

Not quite. Twinks will have a choice:

1. Turn xp-on and own face, but level out of the bracket eventually. Next bracket their gear will be mediocre. They will have to rely on their skill. Problem solved.
2. Turn xp-off and have their ridiculous gear advantage squished to a heirloom iL while xp is off. If they win, they win by skill. Problem solved.

[Kangmurloc-dark-iron]

On the eve (8.1.5) of Blizzard making another huge adjustment to the Gearing options within the Lower Brackets and they think a necro will let them be heard.

Gear up, it will be easier than ever.
Once again Blizzard rewards the active players.

Here is a peek at what is in store via PTR.
Entry Level gear vs Middle Bracket vs End Bracket.
https://imgur.com/lp51swl
x5, x6 are very close to x9.
This is the same for every scaling item obtained from Dungeons and Quests.

Might want to level up a bit before entering instanced PVP?

[Myninjâ-arygos]

Turn xp-off and have their ridiculous gear advantage squished to a heirloom iL inside PvP Instance while xp is off. They will have to rely on their skill to gain competitive advantage.

I like this because your change would have no effect on on me, and little on the bracket. Heirloom ilvls cap at 114 at level 89. BiS gear generally is of lower ilvl

[Welfarê-silvermoon]

Not quite. Twinks will have a choice:

1. Turn xp-on and own face, but level out of the bracket eventually. Next bracket their gear will be mediocre. They will have to rely on their skill. Problem solved.
2. Turn xp-off and have their ridiculous gear advantage squished to a heirloom iL while xp is off. If they win, they win by skill. Problem solved.

Ohhh hey look everyone, yet another clueless person saying that gear is the problem when in reality it’s busted class / specs. I bet they have that funny math too like in the other thread.

[Sandyclaws-tichondrius]

Not quite. Twinks will have a choice:

1. Turn xp-on and own face, but level out of the bracket eventually. Next bracket their gear will be mediocre. They will have to rely on their skill. Problem solved.
2. Turn xp-off and have their ridiculous gear advantage squished to a heirloom iL while xp is off. If they win, they win by skill. Problem solved.

Ohhh hey look everyone, yet another clueless person saying that gear is the problem when in reality it’s busted class / specs. I bet they have that funny math too like in the other thread.

It’s a bit of both. If you don’t know about the big power-lift pieces (Elemental Force, Incend, enchants and sockets, trinkets etc) then you are at a big disadvantage since the heirloom nerf. Look at your gear, through enchants alone you generate an additional 48 INT and 34 STAM, essentially wearing an entire additional heirloom set on top (and this is ignoring Satyr procs and whatever that 4 Vers does), and this is on top of having BiS gear. Average person levels through a bracket in a half day or so? So is it a reasonable expectation that levelers on top of heirlooms fully enchant everything and farm BiS to remain competitive? Ehh, I would say no. Gear disparity should exist, but with a +/- of 20% or so. 48 INT and 34 STAM is about 70% additional stats to a full-heirloom equipped player. Layer that on top of a busted class (especially one with instant-casts) and you’re melting people.

[Welfarê-silvermoon]

through enchants alone you generate an additional 48 INT and 34 STAM

Something that all levelers can achieve as sell. Thanks for pointing that out.

Average person levels through a bracket in a half day or so?

Good, you’ve acknowledged that time in bracket is minimal and makes one wonder what’s the crux of their crying? Is it that they aren’t leveling fast enough? It certainly can’t be that silly thing as wanting to be competitive, can it? I mean we have levelers that are showing up with 8 pieces of gear missing and they expect to be on par with someone fully geared. You think that that person missing 8 pieces should only be at a 20% disadvantage too?

This gear disparity is a joke of a crutch if this is what you expect everyone to believe is the major problems.

48 INT and 34 STAM is about 70% additional stats to a full-heirloom equipped player

And their it is, the busted math that everyone clings to. Can levelers not obtain these enchants? It certainly goes a long way in helping them level.

Here’s some homework for you, How different are these stats on your heirloom gear that you are referring to versus what I have on currently, discounting enchants?

So is it a reasonable expectation that levelers on top of heirlooms fully enchant everything and farm BiS to remain competitive?

Enchants are a very reasonable expectation and that leaves you with 4 pieces of gear to keep up to date:

Feet - can be bought from a vendor for a mark of honor
Belt - can be bought from a vendor for a mark of honor
Bracer - multiple quests/dungeon/AH/professions to obtain
Gloves - multiple quests/dungeon/AH/professions to obtain

Is that soooo hard to maintain 4 pieces of gear once you obtain enchants that you can’t do it yet have the audacity to come here and use words like competitive in a complaint about gear in the same paragraph no less?

https://imgur.com/uLw9ACH

This was taken after the bg, notice the healing ‘disparity’. I am beginning to think that some of you just wanna cry to be crying and can’t accept some are better. Some have taken the time to get better gear, learn their class, and most importantly how to play in a team environment.

With your 20%, I would be limited to healing for only 8k total? Perhaps if they did less whining throughout the match and actually contributed to the game…