And some people have sad lives and base their identity around a game.
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You are wasting each other’s time. That’s how it works.
You wiped 3 times. I’d say he stuck around longer than he needed to.
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I’d say you are not worth arguing with. In fact, I semi-recall your name from SL like 2 years ago just being an elitist turd in every possible thread you could infect.
You are free to believe whatever you want. The fact is the hunter stuck around for 3 attempts and I’m willing to bet this wasn’t listed as a completion run.
You guys are cute together. Maybe you should all run a key with each other instead of expecting pugs to stick around failed keys.
I’m ignoring you at this point. There is no reason they couldn’t put a penalty system in for keys marked with a goal of completion. Leave the Beat Timer goal alone so that people can leave early without being penalized if they think time won’t be met. But arguing with you definitely IS an epic waste of time, so I’ll just put you on ignore and move on.
There are reasons they can’t just slap on a penalty system because everything you guys have come up with can easily be exploited or abused. They will create new issues and not even address what it was meant to address.
Even if a key is marked as completion, there’s always a line of when someone has had enough.
That’s fine, it’s always easier to ignore the truth than to face it.
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Except no one is actually saying that. We’re saying that there is probably something you need to improve about the way you play or the way you form groups if you’re experiencing this issue a lot.
You may not like to hear it, but it’s actually much more helpful than an echo chamber. It is nearly impossible to fix a mistake you’re making without first being aware that you’re making a mistake.
You’re right. It is and epic waste of time to argue with someone who is correct. Ignoring him won’t make you more right though. It will just keep you from seeing the feedback from someone who pugs much more successfully than you, and who would be a great resource for how to improve your experience if you would just accept criticism.
TF you able to criticize if we haven’t pugged together? This is why I start putting people on ignore, because of the weak “get gud” response, instead of being receptive and listening with an open mind and maybe having an actual dialog about issues. But okay, you’re right, it’s my fault.
My particular 17 run, I had 0 deaths outside of broader wipes. No one is 100% right here. The problem is no one is trying to discuss possible compromise and everyone is pushing this all or nothing mentality.
I firmly believe that hunter wasted my time, not the other way around. I also firmly believe that if you join a group with a goal that says completion, it should be obvious that beating time is not the primary goal and you better mentally prepare that it may take the full timer plus some. Hunter died multiple times, didn’t seem to complain when I brez him on his mistakes, and then berated me for 2 full minutes, because I couldn’t reach the tank with a SS. EFF YES I think he should be punished for that nonsense. We would have cleared it, got some loot and moved on had he not been such a crybaby sore loser.
You put people on ignore because you are incapable of facing the truth. You need to ignore people who disagree with you so you can manufacture an echo chamber.
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I just left my own key on my resto druid alt solely to stop people in there from getting points off the key they don’t deserve and i wish other people would do the same. At 15 and above you should absolutely know the way the fights work and know not to battle res on trash, or pull the boss when someone is dead. I would honestly be fine with no one getting points unless the key is timed. Too many people have ratings that are based on just finishing a key.
I put people on ignore so I don’t queue with them again…
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Forum ignore doesn’t transfer to in-game ignores. Moredots was talking about forum ignores.
What I would suggest to you, is when you find people that have similar goals to you that you enjoy doing dungeons with, you add them to your friends list. I’ve done this several times this week alone. And then you end up with a bunch of people that you know what to expect.
Pugs are gonna pug, doesn’t matter what penalty exists. When people leave a key after one wipe or something, add them to ignore, you won’t queue with them again. It’s really that easy.
Lol i know.
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Yes, fine.
It doesn’t change the fact that just telling people to get gud without trying to empathize with others is not constructive at all.
Our group was not the problem. The hunter was the problem.
Furthermore, I’ve also focused on the completion group goal and have said nothing about the beat time goal, because you know what? I also empathize with people whose goal is to beat time not wanting to stick around when it’s obvious the group won’t do it. I do not actually disagree with some of those points and don’t see a reason to change anything when it comes to the beat time group goal setting.
But hollow elite get gud responses I don’t have any interest in engaging with.
There are a lot of issues with this. First, there are lots of things that can be inferred without first hand observation. Nobody has actually seen the Earth going around the Sun, but we know it happens because of other evidence that we can put together and understand.
Second, I didn’t say the problem was your play. I said:
(bold added for emphasis)
Were you the group leader? Who invited the hunter? What is the process you use to determine who to invite? If you weren’t lead, how did you decide which key to join? Did you look at any of the other players to see what their experiences were and if they were a good fit for the group? Did you discuss what the intentions were toward the timer and/or completion?
Yeah, try this. Instead of just digging in and getting mad every time doesn’t agree with you, try processing what they’re saying and see if maybe you’re missing something. (Hint: you are)
And you’re wrong. He was obviously expecting a competent group and sat through 3 wipes on the final boss. Even though the timer was going to be over, he sat there and tried to help you all finish, and gave up after 3 wipes. Maybe it wasn’t your fault on any of the wipes, I don’t know, I don’t care. But what I do know is his time was wasted because one or more people weren’t prepared to do the last boss. Instead of being mad at the hunter, you should be angry with the people who weren’t ready to be in a 17.
You’re so concerned with the lost loot opportunity and the vault slot that you’re not understanding that other players may not care about the loot and already have a full vault. Their situation is different than yours, and for them, finishing a key to get nothing is a giant waste of time and makes no sense.
That’s just how Sos is, but there are a lot of people who try to help other people. Usually that’s something you find in a guild environment because there’s some accountability for being rude.
My guild pugged in a shadow priest for raid the other day and the dude was doing great damage so one of my guild mates asked him for some advice and the guy just said get good. So I immediately kicked him and we moved on and killed the bosses. Unfortunately there are immature people, and you just have to not deal with them.
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I’m not wrong to join a group with a 2600 io tank who marked a 17 as Completion. That just isn’t going to convince me. If they go out of their way to move that drop down from Standard to Completion, that’s pretty deliberate and people should pay attention to that. Furthermore, the tank told us at the start they were trying a new pathing strat, shared the dungeon tools plan and we agreed. He did some wild stuff I’ve never seen, like deliberately triggering the whelp adds and then skipping the middle mobs entirely and jumping off the platform.
I get what you are saying in regards to vetting the group, which I don’t even fully disagree with. But this is also a game, not a job interview. Particularly when my primary goal is to just complete it which was the goal setting made by the keyholder. What seems to be flying over peoples head is the fact that we would have completed it. Group just made a few mistakes on final boss, but we would have completed it. Yeah, 5 minutes over time sucks, but it isn’t extreme either. It’s not unreasonable to stick it out to get the clear on the final boss.
Some of the elitist responses are ridiculous in that you imply that somehow an AV 17 was beyond the ability of the group or something, or my ability to vet it, or whatever. It wasn’t. People just made mistakes and that’s totally fine. Even the hunter who died on nearly every boss was capable of a clear. His problem was that he went into it with the assumption we’d carry him to a timed 17, which was wrong.
Again, and this is the last time I’m going to say this: it really comes down to the Goal selection in the group finder menus and people setting expectations accordingly. I do think some form of mild punishment on the Completion goal especially wouldn’t be a bad thing. Leave the Beat Time one alone.
I help people when they genuinely ask for it. I get annoyed and blunt when people come here to complain and disguise their failures with excuses.
Like some guy came to the forums saying they had 0 deaths and couldn’t time a +20 AV, but their run history showed 20+ deaths. We can’t take people’s stories at face value. People lie.
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You do in fact sometimes help, but my observations are that it’s very rare. More often then not you tend to crush people.
He did add the caveat “Outside of fullwipes” so I will give him credit there.
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