There are two types of people in wow, those who grind BiS lists, and those who have fun
21 Likes
But…and hear me out, some ppl enjoy going after the best gear available in the given moment!!!
Both ways are fun?
Edit: we are both warlocks, we can wear whatever we want and win!!! Lol 
8 Likes
well if you want to raid or not get stomped as much in bgs you need bis.
The lists for ret are attrocious. They focus purely in damage and not being a paladin.
I think they promote tunnel vision in every way possible.
10 Likes
Most “bis” lists don’t even list the best items. They just list whatever has top damage while ignoring all other stats. I always compared this to following a GPS that tells you to turn off the top of a bridge because it’ll get you to the ground below faster.
17 Likes
What I don’t get is the insistence by some raid leaders that everyone go into a Kara raid in pre-bis or better. That made sense in vanilla but from what I’ve heard it’s totally unneeded for Kara.
1 Like
I have fun pumping and gearing correctly tho.
However these bis lists are as on paper as you can get, they only perform that way in the much basic fights you can get and assume you have every buffs/debuffs ever and playing like a robot. Take those with a grain of salt and only as a reference.
1 Like
obviously upgrading your gear is one of the biggest motivators to keep playing this game, but I agree with the OP that you shouldn’t become a slave to some list that some other guy you don’t know made up. just keep playing and finding those upgrades. no need to stress out about getting the absolute 100% best in slot item for every slot. at a certain point it becomes a kind of OCD pathology, like you can’t have fun unless your character has all the best items according to some list.
1 Like
BiS lists don’t cause anything, the player does.
99% of the time you’ll be wearing what is listed, so why would a player not want to target that gear and save themselves time grinding random dungeons and picking up pieces that are sub-par.
They also allow players to easily pass on gear you might need, because they know their BiS is coming from somewhere else.
I see no downside.
1 Like
True. I’d rather have someone who knows the fights and can execute the mechanics than someone who farmed a lot of primals. As long the players who knows the fights isn’t in HFP greens ofc, they need to have some gear.
2 Likes
They list items that give the best stats for the role that you are supposed to be performing. In the case of DPS obviously it is just spreadsheet damage numbers because in the end it is just pure math.
I guess you could argue that guide makers should be creating “For the potatoes who can’t do mechanics and need more stam” lists or “Too poor or cheap to use mana pots” lists but those probably wouldn’t be worth the effort.
I pay attention to BiS lists but I look for alternatives to decide if a BiS item is unquestionably BiS or just slightly better itemized.
Like when you compare the prince dagger vs gruul sword the sword has like 2 more crit rating vs a few stam/int. They’re basically the same but I would take sword over dagger if I was given them as options.
I think people look up BiS lists see what gear is in the slot and focus on it.
1 Like
I went hard for my Prot BIS and almost have it all. It’s been so much fun for me to target specific pieces and what not. Retail gearing is so much less fun… but TBC gearing is satisfying to me.
1 Like
I guess I’m the third… the person who enjoys grinding their BiS.
Looking at the ret lists, there are several pieces that are +AP leather. While these might make you hit harder in their own, that type of gear isn’t ideal for a paladin for a number of reasons:
- STR scales with Kings and the Devine Strength talent, +AP doesn’t
- You need mana in order to perform. Stacking a little INT is a good thing, especially if you’re gonna use any if your other abilities
- Makes you too squishy - not good on PvP servers
2 Likes
They can be useful guides. Guides shouldn’t be taken as gospel.
4 Likes
I both like and dislike BiS lists.
First, most of them are… sketchy. One of the problems with modern WoW is that most of the people giving out advice are primarily interested in clicks/views rather than accurate advice. Then this inaccurate advice gets copied by the people writing guides who don’t themselves have much of a clue what they’re talking about. All this received wisdom creates a vast fog that obscures the very few people who’ve actually done the work to understand the underlying mechanics.
Second, the model everyone uses is Patchwerk - a fight where you can just stand there and blast away full force with no worries about mechanics. Unfortunately, this model matches very few raiding situations so if you just blindly go off a BiS list, you’ll probably be misgeared (albeit only slightly) for the content you are doing.
2 Likes
I imagine that these BiS lists are for raid dps, so reduced armor from wearing leather shouldn’t be a problem. your other points are valid though.
Lists are typically created with one thing in mind and that is doing the most damage possible in raids.
-
It is pure math and kings is factored into it. If you really think these list/spreadsheet creators aren’t smart enough to multiply things by 1.1 then idk what to tell you.
-
You need a very specific amount of mana which can be covered by using mana pots. There are varying fight lengths but typically mana should not be a huge problem if you are doing your rotation properly.
-
These lists are not created with PvP in mind and you should not be using them for PvP. I doubt you will ever find one of these lists that says that it is recommended for both PvP and PvE.
You’re ignoring Divine strength.
Waste if money and you’re ignoring the potential utility.