Big problem with mob damage

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
43

Like I tried to say while I was editing, its prolly the armor vaule % is wrong.
Because they don’t actually show us what the warriors mitigation was for that lvl with defensive stance.

44

The math for armor value is one of the things that is already known.
Its actualy right on private server even though actual values may be off.
Armor is right

45

Finally something we can agree on lol. Also yah chemtrails bro… chemtrails.

46

Freeish…check out Joana’s site. He has vanilla videos and is comparing them to beta and finding problems.

47

Even though you didnt actualy link any evidence instead just saying evidence exists, I checked all over Joanas site and his youtube and found no comparison videos.

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48

blizz dont care. this is classic, not vanilla. did you really think they cared when they said they were going with vanilla on the BFA engine? you can present mountains of evidence with all the inconsistent stuff with classic beta vs real vanilla in many areas and people will tell you that you’re wrong and dismiss you and blizzard won’t even acknowledge your post unless its an influencer complaining.

49

Saying that there is evidence is not evidence.

51

It’s good to look hard at everything. That’s what beta test is for.

On this case it seems that this guy on the video doesn’t see the context he is in on each fight. There is a level 19 boss, level 23 elites that are plentiful in an area. Some elites always were easier than others and easily soloable as a rogue. Some were harder hitting and tougher.

The pig boss later on seems to do little damage indeed. Classic devs could, maybe provide more screenshots of different mobs, but I find it hard to believe that the damage numbers themselves are wrong, if they are pulling them directly from 1.12 database.

Still seems to me like a memory issue to me at this point. As I remember it there were harder fights and so on, but mostly it was relaxed cruising after first couple characters.

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52

It can’t be right if they’re wrong in alot of cases. I doubt PS had accurate data for every single mob in the game.

53

Just started watching Joana’s old guides from 2006 (starting with the Descolace one) and most mobs are doing just 20-30 damage per hit, which seems consistent with the Classic videos so far? Would also mean i overeacted earlier XD

Where specifically can we find the videos where Joana compares Classic with the old videos and finds issues?

1 Like
54

Sorry i should have been clearer. The formulas for armor damage reduction are right on private servers. The numbers you plug into them are often wrong leading to the end result being wrong.

55

If they’re porting numbers directly across then it’s not blizzards fault people’s memory is iffy at best and downright wrong. They’ve stated numerous times they’re not changing any values and those values port across the same.
A 0 on the 1.12 client is still a 0 on classic beta.

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56

Maybe explaining why I am passionate about this will help people understand the issue.
WoW was the first game I played that updated values dynamically. It does attack power calculations for every hit and I always liked that.
If you increase attack speed damage goes down. Changing one value changes the end result.
If any damage numbers are wrong at best something went wrong porting over the database and it has to be thrown out and reimported. At worst every damage number in the game is wrong and they whole game needs to be reworked.
Saying damage is wrong is a serious accusation and if you make it shou should bring clear evidence.

57

I’m nto saying damage is wrong and I’m fully aware of what happens when 1 value is incorrect. I’m against people saying stuff is wrong when all they have is incorrect PS data or incredibly iffy memories to work off.

I can’t for the life of me remember how hard my rogue hit in classic, nor the gear I was wearing nor how much armor I had and what %age of DR that provided.

58

So I personally have a couple of issues with this video, honestly. He is pointing out that Elites, of differing type (Boss vs Trash), differing level, ect. are hitting for inconsistent damage but I have to ask… are they?

First of all, taking into account the bosses, one thing to note is attack speeds. The first boss in question has an extremely slow attack speed and you can watch it by comparison to say the pig boss later on (Which, btw, my memory of said pig boss was that it was a joke of a fight)

Are we taking into account the attack speed differences between Rhahk’zor, Rethilgore, and Agathelos the Raging in comparison to how hard they hit for? For example, as pointed out, Agathelos before being debuffed was hitting for nearly the same as Rhahk’zor. If you watch, Rhahk’zor is not under the effects of Demo Shout like Agathelos was. So lets ignore post-shout Agathelos and watch their attack speeds. Agathelos has a much faster attack speed. So not only is it hitting for roughly the same, slightly higher, its attack far more frequently. The same can be said about Rethilgore who has a faster attack speed as well as a life drain dot he throws on players.

Next, he also decides to compare Trash Elites to Boss Elites. Of course Trash Elites are going to hit for less and be easier to fight? If he wanted to do that then why not compare the Defias Elites in Deadmines to Rhahk’zor, I guarantee that the damage values are going to be far different. Of course a trash mob is weaker than a boss mob, even in higher level dungeons. They are entirely different classifications of elites! There is a world of difference between World Elites (ogres in Loch Modan say hi), Dungeon Trash Elites, Dungeon Boss Elites, Raid Trash Elites (20/40 separated), and Raid Boss Elites (20/40 separated).

Comparing those things are all vastly different to begin with, there are more variables to take into account than what are being done here in this video. I am sure the video creator is very proud of his work, they obviously put a lot of effort into it, but it’s not really taking into account all the different variables. They are only looking at the Auto Attack damage, not factoring attack speed, not factoring strength differences between bosses and trash, not factoring encounter spells, abilities, mechanics, level differences, ect.

There is a lot more to take into consideration here honestly.

And before anyone goes “You are trying to silence people” or anything, no I am not. If there is a legit issue with damage then it needs to be properly addressed and does need attention. However, the format used here for the comparison and the methods the person in this video used have too many different variables to take into account.

The problem I have is that none of the comparison tests are taking into account all factors. Watch the debuffs on the other bosses for example and how many have things like Demo Roar or Demo Shout vs the first boss, watch what buffs the players have, ect.

These tests do not take into account all the factors and are completely incomparable because of that. There are too many differing variables just being completely ignored all while being presented as if they are being tested on a level, equal, playing field.

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59

TLDR Lazy inept tester is inept and lazy.

60

Dam man gotta give you props on this, bravo. Also thanks for spacing!

61

If there is something wrong I hope they find it, I just have a strange feeling lots of us have some faulty memories. Actually I’m beginning to think the biggest culprit might be that lots of players leveled early, long before the class reworks and other things went through so that experience and the 1.12 one is slightly different.

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62

I don’t know if I would say Lazy, they took time to put the comparisons together from other videos of theirs. I would say that they just did not consider all variables involved and as such the test they did can not really be taken seriously for the reasons I pointed out above.

Another reason, one that I didn’t even point out, is gearing and armor which throws even more variables into the whole mess.

There are a lot of factors to take in, more so than their “test” could even begin to cover.

Paragraphs are the best friend of someone, like me, who just can’t shut themselves up~
:wink: :+1:

You and me both. If there is legit something wrong I do hope they find it.

I am sure this is a big factor for some for sure. I also think that a lot of people are coming from Private servers that are emulating Vanilla, servers where things were not quite as accurate and are different than Classic.

I won’t say that Classic isn’t without its problems but I certainly do not think its damage numbers are one of them.

That is another good point also. I started playing around patch 1.5 (because I remember patch 1.6 PTR being something I took part in) and didn’t hit 60 until some time after 1.9 (I was in my late 40’s on my main when the gates opened on my server, I remember flying down to Tanaris and seeing black obelisks appearing below me while on the FP down that way while in the barrens with giant Anubis guys attacking. When I got to Tanaris I remember taking part in the fending off the Anubis guys (Wish I remembered the exact mobs names))

Even in that time period a lot change and far more changed along the way to 1.12.

I don’t think its necessarily any “one” point but a combination of a whole lot of factors put together that contributes to people thinking that its wrong.

Again, if it is wrong I would love for them to find out and fix it but I don’t think the video in this thread really can be taken serious by any capacity.

63

Stick to your private servers and mining all the tin the game has to offer. You people are just awful, truly sad individuals who at no point can simply be happy. Gotta complain about something, even when there is zero evidence to support your outlandish claims.

‘I remember it being harder!’ No duh, it was over a decade ago.

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