I feel like my 10.5~11.0k dps in raids on single target at 260 iLevel is okay. Obviously blade flurry being capped at 5 targets has hurt our AoE a LOT. But dang there are some major buffs coming Tuesday.
Rogue
Recuperator (Conduit) healing reduced by 50% in PvP.
Outlaw
Between the Eyes damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.
Pistol Shot damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.
Sinister Strike damage increased by 20%. This change does not apply to PvP.
Blade Flurry damage increased to 60% of single target damage (was 50%). This change does not apply to PvP.
Enduring Brawler (PvP Talent) stacks up to 15 times (was 20).
Developersâ notes: Our intent with these changes is to improve Outlaw in both single target and 5-6 target cleave situations where Blade Flurry should shine. Outlaw isnât standing out enough in these moments and we hope these changes move us in the right direction. However, in PvP, Enduring Brawler and Recuperator have given Outlaw more survivability than intended and weâve decided to reduce the max stack count as a result.
I would say 99% of outlaw rogues that are complaining about damage (me included), is purely and primarily about M+. Raid dmg we always do pretty ok, outlaw rogues donât care about being on top for raid, we normally switch to sin or sub anyways for raid. But outlaw is literally made to be the âtrash kingâ, we were known for blade flurry mass damage on all packs. Our tool kit is made for M+. But then comes along shadowlands and it just guts the absolute F out of the spec. Like it was just depressing seeing the state of it getting further and further behind of everything. Hopefully these buffs make us competitive. I think sub 20s itâll do solid as hell, but anything above 20s that require mass pulls⌠itâs just not gonna be there in this state of 5 capped on pulls of 10 plus mobs. I guess we will see, time will tell
I donât do M+, just hate it. I always raid in Combat since WotLK. Assassination is just too slow. And I hate the ~stand behind the target~ limitation of backstab. I donât think Iâve ever even seen a subtlety rogue out in the wild in ages.
Im doing m+ 15 and up and i struggle to do more than 12k dps overall at 270 ilvl im glad to hear that it isnt just me, is their a way to raise it? . Oh and other question can we not need to put a dagger in our oh. Like give us a buff for not using a dagger (i dont use one but i keep getting told to)
Unfortunately itâs pretty tough as an outlaw rogue to do more than that in keys even if you play near perfection. Youâre just too wing clipped by the 5 cap. The reason you put a dagger in OH is for more poison procs and applications of instant poison. Doing two swords is honestly not that far behind in dmg, and for most instances itâs completely fine. Especially two pox blades from pf.
Ok my oh is poxstorm im hopping for a 278 version from my vault. Ok so im not just horrible? I mean that makes me feel much better ty
The buffs should help a little but i seriously think the cap should be upped by 1 to 2 targets at least. My buddy is a frost dk and jumps up to 75k. Never everrr happens with us
Yeah I mained outlaw S1 and S2 pre uncapping of all other classes in 9.1.5 and was forced to switch classes because I was no longer getting accepted to anything above +21s last season after patch released. Unfortunately those âbuffsâ coming out will barely do anything. Dispatch is our most used finisher and there are no buffs to itâs dmg, 10% to blade flurry with still no uncapping means that will all the buffs theyâre giving, you may see a 4-5% increase in dmg overall, youâll barely notice it and your big pack pulls wonât be any different :-/
Its really sad i donât wanna play any other class or spec but i cant cut it with the rest
Maybe ill have to put wow down for a while. 100% devs dont even check forums like this to do fixes. I mean cant they see the numbers?
Dude I feel you pain, outlaw is my favorite spec in the game and I canât enjoy it if I canât get accepted to m+ (my favorite part of the game). This is coming from someone whoâs played rogue since vanilla in the combat days. I tried subtlety, but I hate the spec. I switched to monk in 9.1.5 but I just didnât like how their ST was abysmal and they are a super basic spec. I went back to my DH for 9.2 and Iâm actually having alot of fun with it, itâs petty competitive in dmg, I can do like 30-50k on big pulls and do like 13-20k on ST depending on boss. I know how you feel, I quit for 3-4 months after I couldnât get accepted on my rogue, but I came back and found another fun class to play until 10.0, hopefully then they fix the sh!t state outlaw is in
Worth pointing out the reasoning of the guy above is incorrect. You do dagger in OH because main gauche proc % doesnât scale against attack speed - itâs a flat 75% so more oh attacks from the dagger = more procs in a given window. It boils down to the energy regen mechanic where you get more energy from the dagger. The increased damage from heavier OH strikes is supposed to balance it out but the argument is basically âmore energy > white damageâ because you get additional procs from higher energy consumption, but none from higher white damage. Also instant poison IS normalized vs attack speed, in contrast to MG. Using a slower attacking MH while dropping additional ability based strikes increases the proc rate but it would proc the same from a dagger as a sword, in a vacuum
We do have 1 uncapped AoE ability (Blade Rush) which you HAVE to take now and cant enjoy the more fun (but not as useful) Killing Spree. The 45 second cooldown can be reduced to around 20 seconds averagely (assuming you dont get a trash Slice n Dice buff proc), so im guessing this is somehow the reason we are not uncapped or at the bare minimum hitting 8 targets. The worst part is that it hits an extra â4â targets, just make it 5 in the tooltip atleast⌠And also removing the Slice and Dice buff from the game entirely i would be happy with. Because if any of the other 5 buffs proc from Roll the bones, its competitive damage. If you get back to back slice and dice procs, u might not beat the tank⌠xD The 5 second free buff from vanish/sinister doesnt help enough in a slice n dice proc situation⌠Anyway glad they are buffing the ST and 5 target aoe with 20% BTE⌠but still not enough for me to go back to this spec or even main rouge anymore over my other toons⌠been there done that with Sub so its just too zzZzzZZzz for me atm
You have this straight backwards. Main Gauche is normalized from dagger, to sword, and will proc the same amount of times, while instant poison procs are not.
âWhile Outlaw is one of the few target capped classes remaining in the game, itâs important to keep in mind that Outlaw currently loses to other specs such as Sub rogue even when pulling within its target cap at 5 targets. Uncapping Outlaw alone would do almost nothing to change its position in the raid, or M+ meta.â
you guys do know that marksmen and some other classes are still hard capped at 5 right? they still do alot more dam then other uncapped specs. with the exception of destro and surv of course. further more outlaw necro/kyrian with early sims (gsw) are showing very high aoe dps that is almost on par with sub. uncapping outlaw wouldnt have fixed the problems with outlaw. at all.
Something to keep in mind in regards to target caps is that they are really only relevant whenever you are doing 28+ dungeons which is less than 1% of the entire playbase.
Specs in the past in both season 1 in MM hunter, and season 2 with windwalker monk were both hard target capped yet totally eclipsed totally uncapped classes such as Fire Mage, and Balance Druid the other big hitters in keys at the time despite âbeing target cappedâ
The biggest issue Outlaw has at the moment is that itâs damage sucks. When you compare Sub rogue to Outlaw rogue on a 5 target pull, and Sub rogue is ALREADY doing more damage than Outlaw, the issue here isnât that âOutlaw is target cappedâ the issue is that âOutlaw damage is badâ
Personally I feel like these changes are good enough? Itâs almost close to sub rogue in sims atm, so itâd need like 1 more buff to just be stronger.
The biggest changes I want moving forward are just bug fixes honestly, the fact that our legendaries, and tier set are still bugged is extremely frustrating.
If the spec still sucks though even after these buffs, Iâd just keep cranking the numbers on blade flurry until it becomes the king of 5 target cleave.
Well honestly i want it to catch up with other classes. I dunno change the hit cap to 6 i feel like that would raise overall dps for a dungeon by around 2k and my frost dk friend will stop out dpsing me with ease