As just as I love to pvp and used to love arenas. I can’t play retail arenas everyone does to much aoe/splash damage and ur screen is cluttered with spell alerts and activations. Not fun, Solo Shuffle was release like 7 years too late.
You wont hear a peep from me. But I hope mages are buff… I can’t remember the last Paladin I lost too while playing a mage. =P
Rets would be the phase 2 versions of Enh. LOL
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solo shuffle experience:
-be in que for 20 mins, que pops
-5/6 players
-20 more mins
-finally get game
-gates open
-warrior on your team leaps across map, charges behind pillar, round lost
-“WTF HEALS???”
that and teammates who love to break soft CC
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Probably did 15 ABs last week queing in 5s with randoms spamming the que room “lfm.” 13 were victories, 6-7 were 5 caps. 3-4 were just ppl from our server (crusader strike, all these were 5 caps too).
It just seems like alliance for the most part aren’t as organized as us horde. There are always a shot caller (sometimes ppl fighting for the spot).
We got hunters/shams actively scouting and making inc calls.
Most of the time the 5s u que up in are selective (like we’re recruiting 1 healer maybe 1 melee).
The forced que times are making us adapt, try, and be a bit selective.
There are just as many rets, but they are half the class an ele / enh shaman is in BGs at the moment. Causing a huge imbalance towards horde in BGs. BG queues start dropping for horde week 1, you then take into account that horde figure out you have to premade to get shorter queues it then compounds the issue further and less alliance queue up.
Leave that going for a whole phase and you are left with a completely dead game that has a lower population than classic era.
Whats the excuse for having less locks/mages? I know mages are terrible but locks arent. Those classes would help you more than the billion rets you guys have.
Thats not horde fault… No idea why blizzard changed it. Its like the dumbest change of them all.
Excuse? Id say its because alliance are completely random?
People want to play the hybrids that got buffed as they were pretty rough in classic. Thats why there are alot of shamans / pallies / priests / druids. You bring in even numbers of these and the balance skews towards horde because of the value of shamans compared to paladins.
You saying just bring in less paladins and bring in more warlocks to balance would be the exact same as horde should bring in less shamans. Not a great argument.
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"alliance lose because uh…too many paldins 
except wait no paladin OP because bubble at node…uh reinforcements…uh… can’t cap flag???"
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The problem is , paladins suck. They suck hard. On my ele paladins exist to farm me power surge procs and hit me to proc my push back protection while I spacebar god X kill the actual problem classes behind them. If the average alliance team ends up with the same on average horde team count of paladins versus shamans. They lose, unless they are extremely extremely organized and the horde team is an absolute pug.
Eles are absolutely insane. I am hitting 700+ crit initial hit flameshocks in nerfed PvP. And this is a flameshock rank from P2 btw. And it can hit 5 total people, and it puts up an 18 sec dot that farms out the ability for me to send out 1400 damage instant cast lava bursts that can overload into a 700 damage lava burst.
You can ele mastery a chain lightning into a 5 target cleave flame shock.
Enhance is just a brutal bruiser in the damage nerf meta.
I’m sorry but assuming equal distribution of classes and paladins and shamans being 1 to 1 , alliance are screwed. Either shamans need to be brought down, or paladins need to be brought up to a level where they feel like the alliance HERO class. The latter would be kind of interesting… both meme specs the respective titans of each faction.
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ret was more solid before the DR was put in place, but it’s still been not on par with sham.
it is funny seeing people complain about ret being OP in AB like spinning a flag for 12 seconds every 5 mins completely tilts the game. that’s why we win all the time right?
I would be more down with the latter but don’t have faith so far they will do anything to achieve this.
they could start with…
MAKE DIVINE STORM GREAT
give us Cata WoG at 250 mana cost
shield of vengeance would be dope
exorcist and art of war combined as a boot rune
So I came back after a month hiatus due to the PVP blanket nerfs.
I still dislike the changes and they’ve definitely still caused some of the classes to be gutted.
Now in response to the thread, there’s a lot of false information being posted.
- horde are not doing 15m sync Queues.
They’re actually trying to just get into BGs by forming random 5mans. - It’s usually not 40min solo Q, the norm is 60min +/-20min soloQ!
if you went afk and got logged GG or if you missed that 2min window after waiting 1hr, Get Fracked.
3)ret paladins are not trash, but they’re not OP burst classes with uncounterable bubble anymore (this was completely imbalanced b4).
In fact they’re prob on the weak side now because the nerfs changed PVP into a sustained DPS fight and they are and always have been weak at sustained DPS.
So the relative difference makes the class seem like hero to zero. But that’s just a relative perspective because ret players have been used to being broken frontline solo heroes since Phase 1 in PVP.
They’re nowhere as weak as OG ret paladins 2003 or Classic paladin.
But a lot of alliance still play them without adapting to the new style of frontline support DPS (their origins) and never actually learned how to play the class. It was herp derp bubble, stun, burst > target dead.
There’s a lot of tricks available paladin which originate from Vanilla 2003 and classic but I general don’t see any paladins who actually know how to play. They’ve also been given an amazing skills, retooled stats on gear, amazing PVP weapon.
And I’ll prove that most of them don’t know how to “effectively” play paladin.
How often do you see them dispel teammates?
I rarely see it. Even something as big as a sheep.
They’ll let you sit there for the full duration as they try and tunnel a target getting healed.
The same can be said for other classes, it’s just much more obvious now because they’re underpowered and now shifted a bit into support in this meta.
Ie.
Lot of bad druid players that don’t dispel poison.
Lot of bad priests that don’t wipe dots or FF off teammates, even as they’re standing beside them out of combat trying to eat to survive.
A lot of bad hunters break everyone’s CC
Excuse, “well I’m DPS so I don’t do that.”
This mentality is from being PVE DPS.
But it actually just demonstrates they’re bad PVP team players.
Being bad at PVP in one aspect shows the person’s mindset that translates into all aspects of PVP because it shows they can’t think past themselves.
Then wonder why they lost a team game while playing selfishly.
You get enough of these selfish players and you will get stomped.
There are players like that on horde too but if you act like an ashat, high chance the 5man is going to boot you out or disband. That selfish player won’t be seen again for another 1hr+ and at low pop times they will not get to BG the rest of the night.
If they’re aggressive and are putting their own group together, their toxic behavior usually leads ppl to leave which delays their queues.
So being toxic or selfish on horde has consequences.
This is probably another reason alliance are losing as the forced 5 man queues on horde are enforcing healthier social norms, behaviours and teamwork.
It also doesn’t hurt this PVP meta heavily favors Shammies (still).
However there are other OP classes available to both factions, even if not played well.
Regardless of what ppl say, rogues are not one of them. Ppl associating strong and annoying (to the point of aggravation) with OP but that’s not the same.
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that’s a lot of words to say “the ret paladin isn’t standing there cleansing all 5 flame shocks before more are applied”
I cleanse anyone near me. how many people you think are sitting sheep these days with 6 second cooldown on 5 target dot damage?
ret wasn’t one shot damage before DR, but it was high burst. as it should be. I don’t have a slow I can use thanks to being forced into taking exorcist on my leg runes due to every subsequent rune from p2 onward being focused around me taking it.
you say since p1, ret was strong contextually in p1 when everyone else was missing half their kit. did you even play p2? ret wasn’t bad but it wasn’t remotely close to enhancement shaman running around stomping people into dust while shrugging off damage and rarely taking crits
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I oom myself cleansing as ret. People do dispel there is just so much to actually dispel and GCD limits how fast you can. Especially if you are holy and lack instant cast heals. That auto crit flash of light usually wont save you from burst so it either Blessing of Sac try and get sacred shield up and maybe squeeze a heal off but then DoTs are ticking and as you cleanse your heal target dies.
So what youre saying is ret paladins should oom themselves (they dont get any bonus int on gear like enh does) by doing nothing but dispelling team mates? So output 0 damage? When fundementally a paladin cant dispel 1 shamans dots quicker than they can apply.
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I run lamellar (it has Str, Stam, and Int and spell dam+healing on every piece) in pvp and give up 4% crit to NOT OOM myself, judgement and exo are still both buffed by the spell damage bonuses, I still crit often enough, but even with mana for cleanse not being an issue, are we supposed to stand there doing nothing but cleansing for SEVERAL globals when 5 more are going out in 6 seconds?
Its almost as if all those priest alliance had from phase 1 stop playing all of the sudden. Ret’s aren’t the only ones that can dispel. But, the 8 of them in bgs if half did it wouldn’t be much of a problem. /wink
PS. I hate same faction in cata bgs. =P
edit: You guys make it sound as if shaman or horde in general aren’t pressured enough that shaman’s can chill and not have cast anything else other then flameshocks. I myself through out heals from time to time or Im pressured to move or alliance can spread the hell out. LOL
it’s almost as if 1 ele shaman is capable of putting out 5 flame shocks just to himself
let’s not be hyperbolic here with 8/15 players in AB being paladins (that I’ve seen you cry about spinning the flag in a bubble, somehow OP but not OP enough to be a detriment to the team? pick one dude) let’s assume even 4 paladins and 3 priests go to blacksmith.
enemy team has only 3 ele shaman in the BS clash. in this hypothetical scenario, if every single one of them stopped to cleanse that could do it, that’s 7 people doing nothing but pressing cleanse for 3 seconds (4.5 for the last person cleansing). 7 people not doing anything but pressing cleanse for 3 seconds straight while the rest of your team is free to play the game. in 3 more seconds, they can all go out again. you clearly don’t understand how this is an issue.
this is also assuming no other magic dots like SWP or corruption are going out
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Dude, I dont cuz I never go BS (I r ele) I go LM and then ST. But, I think the easiest thing to do if there are 3+ ele’s at BS… Spread out? lol And you guys make it sound like you cant pressure horde right back. I’ve been in games were boomkins stunlock me. They should be outside of flameshock range too… what are your hunters doing?
I gotta log in and check what is FS range again? Man, shaman’s are pushing in far enough to get FS on everyone in the back line.
it felt like we could before they handed you an insane buff for free on a silver platter and then did a wack blanket damage nerf. your TTK with the buff+DR went up by what, one extra global? you really underestimate how much favoritism your class has gotten for most of the lifecycle of SoD. look over all your runes again and go look at every other classes runes side by side. you’re so laughably catered to and you’re like “WELL JUST PRESSURE BACK”
ok dude
range is 25 y with STV totem btw
inb4 "I melt as a mail+shield user as soon as I step into flameshock range I am evaporated 
"