I don’t think anybody “likes” losing. It’s just many people here (myself included) don’t think it makes sense to incentivize losing by adding a reward, however small.
The perception of players asking for this comes off to me like “I only play for the reward, not for the game itself”
That’s lame. If I had to pick the players for my team (premade or rbg) I want the people who play for the game itself (which does include trying to win) not just the negligible reward.
Just in it for the reward.
I’ve left maybe 5-10 lifetime for real world issues coming up. Maybe double that because of disconnects. That’s it.
The number of lopsided bgs I’ve been placed in because of quitters is too many to bother counting. Why am I placed in so many? Because whiny buttercups are whiny? Idk, how else am I to describe it? Serious question.
Btw, great reference. Operant conditioning and old BF.
I used to agree but I was thinking… It’s not about incentivizing losing but about incentivizing effort. Currently if the game looks like a loss 1/3 afks out, the next 1/3 starts trolling or ignoring objectives and the last 1/3 stops playing and resorts to flaming people in chat. How is that a good design?
Giving people incentivize to try to win even if the other team has double your points would be awesome. If you were losing an ab by 500 points but instead of giving up or flaming your team you closed the gap to 100 points at the end, why shouldn’t you get a reward? You were so close to winning and didn’t give up I’d say give people 75% of what the winners got. This would create way less blow outs I’m sure (which aren’t fun for either side).
I’d agree a few of the people asking for it definitely do. Still though if they out the effort in to win and almost do? That effort should be rewarded. Also the reward thing is needed, that’s the whole point of almost any game, to feel like you’re achieving something. Also the way an mmo is set up, people need some kind of gear reward to stay competitive or not you’d see even more people pveing than they do now.
Tldr: incentive effort by scaling rewards for a loss depending on how close you made the game. Scaling as high as 75% if you were within 100 points.
I believe av has that.
I’m not opposed to incentivizing improved play, but just adding cq to losses without concepts like you put in (and lets be real, blizzard is lazy enough as it is) isn’t healthy.
I would personally like a more incentivized scoring and reward mechanic (like eso) that rewards positive individual play - like orb pickups in temple, carts in ssm, bases defended (add personal points like in ssm) in ab, etc.
Maybe improve the loot boxes for individual play for those that do things like that, etc., to award positive effort even in a loss.
Even if people queue bgs just for the reward (conquest points, honor points, etc), there’s nothing “wrong” with that either
The rewards are not necessarily “negligible” either, some of us have alts and bgs/conquest cap are just another way to supplement the gearing process. 360/385/400 gear is nothing to sneeze at as a fresh 120 alt ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
I don’t disagree with this idea either. Only problem, as jugga points out a lot, is that bgs are about team play… This would incentive the super undergeared warlock to try and be fc and cap the flag because there are points to be awarded. Speaking of blizzard doing things poorly, I could see a system like that going extremely wrong ![:joy:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
Honestly I’d just reward the team for working together. If that weak warlock just follows the fc and spam fears anything that is on the fc or healer is doing a better job than trying to cap the flag.
Yep. This would incentivize effort. Winner-take-all means you take all of my time in a long loss, and I get no Conquest Points.
And as I tried to explain to Lasagna, and he failed to understand, an account-wide-deserter-debuff for an hour long, just means people who would prefer to AFK out and not waste their TIME, would instead play at 20-50% capacity, to avoid his stupid debuff idea, and waste a minimum amount of their TIME, while speeding the loss up. (*at least in the current system, if I leave the game, you get someone who might be happy to spend all of their TIME, in that loss, getting you more honor)
Again, Nawat with a great idea. Not just giving a reward to the winner, but giving a reward based on effort/close game. I’ve lost 2 AV’s by 1 point out of the 3700 AV’s I’ve played. Would have been nice if those were worth a 30-50% reward (higher since the game was so damn close?) of what the winning team got.
MMO’s do need to reward the player. Not purely for victory in pug BG’s. Effort/time are worth something too.
Whether or not scaling was applied (I like the idea a lot Nawat), the loser needs to get something for staying in a losing BG, or the treadmill of people like me (with reasonably good gear, and sometimes time limitations) AFKing out will continue. Accountwide deserter debuff would only make it worse, not better.
Incentivizing effort/time, would make it much less of a problem. (It’s no problem for me, I like all parts of the game. Just like PvP the most)
And that’s fine, let it continue. Just have people who habitually leave Bgs be replacements for other deserters.
Fatfreddy, there is no Conquest Point scaling in AV. Not sure about Honor points. Which did you mean?
I’ve played this game over the course of it’s existence. The quitter problem is the worst I’ve ever seen it by a long shot.
Snapshot in time, during BC, when Season 1 gear was able to be acquired with honor points, why were there less quitters then?
There was no scaling, no handicaps of any kind. The items took a long time to farm, especially if you were losing more often than winning. People were jumping into BGs on their alts to farm the stuff.
I farmed the stuff myself on this Warrior, then later farmed season 2 on my Paladin. The revolving door of quitters then backfillers then backfillers turn into more quitters didn’t exist.
Why does this exist now, when it’s easier overall?
Edited for spelling, all over the place, need more coffee.
I’ve definitely gotten cq in close av losses in bfa.
Honest question for the “need reward” people: what do you do during season hiatus when there is no gear?
For wsg that’s a good point, but for every non ctf map there’s a lot of team play that is individual - spinning a flag, staying in a cart circle, picking up orbs (which a ton of people just don’t do), etc.
If I recall correctly, AV does have a built-in “loser’s compensation” reward, but it only “triggers” if the game is very close in terms of score… like both teams have less than 100 reinforcements left (i think)
I’m not sure exactly what the criteria for this “loser’s compensation” reward is. But I do remember getting the 65 conquest points during two or three Alliance losses… but I also remember those games were SUPER super close and down-to-the-wire.
I think the final score in those games was something like A: 0 to H: 27 or something similar
If the score is the usual A: 0 to H: 300-400 then the loser gets nothing
I’m not sure if the other 2 epics have the same built-in “loser’s compensation” reward, so far I’ve only seen it in AV
Different type of players then and now. You can get 360 gear for a loss which is equivalent to honor gear in terms of ilvl.
Yes, I have this suspicion, I don’t think any in game mechanic implemented now would make much of difference.
There is an old adage that goes something like this:
Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. That means you can do what you want as long as you aren’t hurting others.
When you leave a bg, you are wasting someone else’s time. that “hurts” them. Therefore punishments for beyond a reasonable frequency for such behavior are rightly doled out. When said punishments are insufficient as a deterrent then it is the usual response is to try increasing the punishment in order to find a more acceptable level of infractions. “Acceptable” because it can never be stopped of course.
Baffling that this has to be explained. And tbh, disappointing.
I don’t need a pedestal to see higher than you. You are a gnome.
I was asked my opinion. You and OP seem to think that because my opinion on leaving is different than yours it is some personal attack on you. I don’t pass judgment. I state a fact in a factual way. You turn it into an emotional outburst about pedestals and people being better than others or try to prove yourself worthy somehow to make it ok.
I suggest you drop your defense and realize that being overly defensive is a sign of you feeling guilty.
You already have a lot of good reasons to stay said in multiple threads.
There are plenty of ways to get conquest outside of strictly wins in BGs that have also been listed on many threads. All of them pvp. I’m sure you have seen them since I am fairly certain you are just an alt of someone who posts more regularly who is far too much of a coward to post on their main forum poster.
Why are you acting like your time matters more than others? Giving people backfills into losses. Leaving teams hanging and being first through the revolving door.