BfA: What went wrong

That depends on what you consider wrong.

It is possible that Blizzard had some simple goals for the Story and Gameplay: remove a couple major cities and extricate Sylvanas from the Horde.

Those would always be controversial and bitter subjects. But if those were not the goals of BfA… they were the outcome.

Blizzard seemed hell bent on their direction, and we arrived at it, with little effectual choice. There were some fun and noteworthy choices, though they were ultimately pointless in the face of Blizzard’s desired narrative.

I guess I find it hard to consider what is “wrong” in this context. What would have been “right”? Would it have fit Blizzard’s purpose?

The bulk of the Horde’s cast in the War Campaign seemed like a bunch of “hey! remember this person!” NPCs they threw in to try and get the players invested in it. Very few of ‘em made any sense to be there with the exception bein’ Nathanos.

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They never said that and that is literally impossible how come no other company found out how to do it

Even if it would take months to make a new CGI, these rewrites likely started sometime in legion, possibly being finalized by the final patch. It also wouldn’t take years to make a CGI, especially if they reused assets. Thats probably the main reason they used the same Troll in Saurfangs and the Opening, they had a model for him.

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If The Joker were Warchief, the Horde’s story would actually make so much more sense.

“It’s all a joke! Everything anybody ever valued or struggled for… it’s all a monstrous demented gag!”

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I also struggle to understand why Sylvanas sent two no name mediocre rouges to kill Thrall as well as Saurfang (one of the cinematics). I get the Saurfang aspect obviously, but Thrall? I get they were following Saurfang, but they wait for the moment he’s with Thrall and attack both?

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Sadly, the post is gone with the old board, but I do remember saying at some point that it felt like one set of writers had just been pushed aside by a new group with a very different picture of how the expansion should go.

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I think the story issues all come back around to a shift in Blizzard’s philosophy about the kind of narrative they want, and the kind of audience experience.

When Vanilla WoW was launched, the story was written for an RPG. In other words, the narrative focused on the in-game adventures of the players, with story beats mostly being small and chunked out so that players could take them at their own pace and in a variety of ways.

The story, in other words, was there as part of setting, with the plot being subordinated to the player’s adventures. The story was important because it gave richness to the world, but we weren’t primarily focused on what the various NPCs, especially the faction leaders, were up to.

In other words, the writers were primarily focused on world building and creating an environment where players could tell their own stories.

That has morphed over the years. Now, it seems like the writers are primarily interested in the adventures of the NPCs. This is reflected in bringing on board writers like novelist Christie Golden, who is naturally interested in long-form storytelling and the characters that she has built upon over many years. It is also reflected in the designer’s references to touchstones such as Game of Thrones.

In other words, the writers are now primarily interested in telling us a story.

I think it is a complete reversal in the relationship between player and story. And I think one of the consequences is that Blizzard therefore feels they need to keep making the story more and more dramatic to hold our attention, since they have turned us into, basically, a passive audience.

So I’m not interested in pointing at particular plot moments to identify “what went wrong.” I think Blizzard’s entire approach to the story has gone wrong, and BfA is a consequence.

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Two things on this.

One, I don’t think the zones were originally planned to be able to be done in different orders as various players wished. I think that technology came about and was enabled during the x-pac’s construction.

If you look at the profession questlines almost all of them send you into Azuna first. They then spread out into the other zones from there. This implies that Azuna was constructed to be the first zone when the zones were still thought of as being played in a certain order.

Thus said book would have been in the first zone before Stormhiem. The level scaling tech giving the ability to select any zone of choice broke the sequence. Before Legion we always did zones in certain orders and the new tech broke the coherency of zone to zone order.

Second, you are forgetting (not that I can blame you) about what was supposed to have been Genn’s (and Rogers’) big motivation in attacking the Horde:

The Horde’s “Betrayal” of the Alliance at Broken Shore.

Yes, that story moment was a blunder and wasn’t done in any sort of convincing fashion, but when the writers were putting together the story, they clearly thought it was a major moment and they wrote the characters reacting to it as they envisioned it, not how it actually played out.

And given they have a metaphorical armory of story reasons good enough to equipment an Arnold Schwarzenegger 80’s action movie for the Alliance to hate and distrust Sylvanas this shouldn’t have turned out like it did.

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There was an order to the zones until Blizzard decided to just let people level where every they want. I forgot the specific order but as Julia noted Aszuna was the first zone. I am pretty certain Stormhiem was the last.

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I seem to recall that durin’ the BlizzCon where they announced Legion they showed a slide where they intended the zones to start in Azsuna and then go clockwise from there:
Azsuna > Val’Sharah > Highmountain > Stormheim > Suramar

Implementation of level scalin’ had 'em change their minds.

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While all that may be true, the issue of the book is essentially Schrodinger’s Canon, because both sides can retrieve it.

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Some they do, Legion for example is clearly something they planned at least a fair amount where as something like WoD and even to an extent MoP were clearly done on a whim (MoP ended up working out arguably)

Shadowlands seems to be their attempt at a clean slate even going as far to say Chronicles is just the Titans look at stuff, which basically means anything can happen and what we know can be wrong.

Given the whole Time works differently and Azeroth will assuredly be different by the time we get back to it from our time in the Shadowlands, It’s kinda clear what the writers are going for.

Ive read the BFA autopsy from over 10,000 players so far.
I have officially found something worse than 24 hours news

Breaking News 24/7

Battle For Azeroth sucked.

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I don’t have a problem with this. I have a problem with people claiming that Genn knew that Sylvanas was planning to do something with the val’kyr specifically, when the book only says “the power of the v…” and there are lots of things in Legion that start with v. Vault, for one. And Genn also admits he doesn’t know what Sylvanas is after.

(Also, as Jellex notes, the Horde PC can find the book too, and no one in the Alliance quest chain references it, so I don’t think it’s canon that the Alliance has it.)

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Their whole philosophy was wrong in BfA.

Killing off characters left and right, destroying zones, destroying faction pride and completely annihilating playable races and ignoring them after that…

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I don’t really care if people consider the book canon or not. For the Horde or the Alliance. It is a breadcrumb quest item, nothing more.

The only point I make on Genn rescuing Eyir validating his actions comes when people complain he wasn’t punished for attacking Sy;vanas in Stormhiem.

It made it impossible to punish him (and Rogers) when he exposed what Sylvanas was up to in Stormhiem. It is all after the fact justification but that is just good luck on Genn’s part (and Rodgers).

And since the writers made the Broken Shore “Betrayal” a thing, they have to write within the confines of it.

I also don’t consider it plot armor on Genn and Rodgers part because the story provides suitable reasoning for why there wasn’t punishment for them. It isn’t out of character for Sylvanas to try and enslave Odyn’s Val’kyr or for her to make a bargain with Helya. So these actions weren’t just thrown in so Genn could attack unpunished.

The entire questchain seems to be written fairly well (at least on the Alliance side, never done the horde side cause I realized it meant abusing Ashildr’s trust). The entire story was Gilneas, Liam Greymane, and Southshore coming back to bite Sylvanas on the @$$.

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Afrasiabi had a real strong opinion about Sylvanas’s loyalists being wrong (and should be deleted.)

I don’t think he ever intended for Sylvanas to be right. I’m not sure what he intended beyond that, though.

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What he intended was taking what appears to have originally been a well nuanced conflict and made it so it was the single most black and white conflict between the factions. Screwing over the Forsaken, Orcs, Zandalari, and Night Elves in the Process.

Because I guess he really liked Warcraft 2. This is why Seniority is bad people.

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