BfA: What went wrong

So while i’m pretty sure we discussed why a large portion of us dislike BfA at this point, i still think we should dig into how this happened. I honeslty think that the change in leadership from Kosak to Afriasaiba caused a lot more problems. This is gonna be a lot of Inferance based Guessing on what happened from limited evidence, because i don’t actually have insight inside the company.

Blizzard constantly says they plan expansions years in advance, and while it’s probable they plan for the next expansion, they likely only have outlines for ones after that. This brings us to Legion, an expansion where we actually know a lot was changed in the story from the early alpha to the final release. Some changes made sense, like rewriting Highmountain because of a plothole, while others seem… odd. Vol’jin for example was origenally MIA after broken Shoe, not Killed, and Sylvanas took over not by his dying words but because she was then the second highest ranked military commander, having been appointed by Vol’jin to lead the hordes combined forces in the Broken Shore offensive.

Now we run into the Trailer for BfA and some comments from Metzen, and we learn that Sylvanas likely wasn’t supposed to be the main villain in BfA. The Trailer infamously has Sylvanas and Saurfang working together, and Metzen thought the Hordes story would be about unifying the broken parts of it. He also stated, that the big Moral Event Horizen Sylvanas preformed at the start of the Expansion, the Burning of Teldrassil, wasn’t even planned to happen. The war would start in a different way. Combined with the fact Darkshore wasn’t one of the datamined warfronts over some alliance offensives makes me think the War of the Thorns might have been a last minute change. The book in legion that seems to exist simply to give Genn justification in attacking Sylvanas during Stormhiem is another odd case. Where despite being this big major event, his in universe whitewashing was in a minor questline in another zone entirely that could be played afterwards.

All this combined makes me think Kosak’s plan was to have the Horde be temporarily under Sylvanas’ leadership, were they finally unify into a greater whole. After which Vol’jin would be found (Possibly on Zandalar) and retake his position as Warchief while Sylvanas returns to simply being the banshee queen. Genn’s attack in Stormhiem would simply be motivated by his vendetta and be the actual start of hostilities again.

Why would they do all these things? Because Afriasaibi has vastly different opinions on Sylvanas then Kosak did. We joke about Danusaur waifuing her, but before him we did it with Kosask. Afriasaiba (and to a lesser extent novelist Christie Golden who often worked with him) wanted her to be a villain, over Garrosh Hellscream. He likely felt like now that he was given the reigns, he could rewrite Sylvanas’ story as the main antagonist. It also serves to highlight how Disconnected Nzoth is from the main plotline. It wouldn’t be an issue if there wasn’t a main villain, but with Sylvanas taking that role it becomes harder to justify.

As for how it effected Shadowlands, well i expect Shadowlands was, at best, in the super early conceptual stages, and it would be easy to change it so Sylvie was the cause over whatever they had planned.

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What went wrong? It started wrong.

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Who’s that

Sorry I couldn’t read the whole thing without lmao (will post a serious response soon)

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In before “all horde evil” and the word “genocide” gets thrown around like crazy.

In all honesty though it’s very very very hard to believe Blizzard plans out the xpacs years in advance. Somethings just feel so rushed and half a**ed. The new zones are beautiful, gameplay is meh ok I suppose, but when you get to the story aspect and actually pay attention it just leaves you scratching your head.

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Might be a way to stop this thread from being deleted, if there’s a crawler bot looking for the names of specific staff.

But my personal favorite is this:

:smiley:

(I will also probably post a serious reply after I’ve read the whole thing. I just wanted to chuckle over “broken shoe.”)

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With recent interviews in regards to the story, it does seem like a lot of the writers under Afrasiabi were huge fans of the Warcraft 2 era Horde and didn’t like the more heroic direction Metzen was goin’ with the Horde under Thrall. With Metzen and Kosak gone, they are finally able to write their more villainous Horde and stale Alliance.

BFA alone feels like they wanted to go one direction, changed halfway through, and now are back-peddlin’ after seein’ how much the players didn’t enjoy it. Shadowlands will definitely be a “make it or break it” expansion for some players. It will for me, at least. It’s goin’ to have to fix a LOT of things that BFA did wrong; not just with the Story, but with the game overall.

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Lol another Sylvanas isn’t evil thread ha , Sylvanas was always evil since classic like seriously sure she didn’t have to be warchief she didn’t have to be exposed in a faction war but was always evil. Like her more evil steps where literally written under Kosak the whole idea that she is lying to the forsaken and didn’t give a rats butt was introduced by him

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I didn’t notice that stuff :laughing: I still since you guys pointed out what happened and Its still able to get my intent across, im fine.

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I for one refuse to believe they planned BfA years in advance. The narrative on Kul’tiras and Zandalar where good, not spetacular, but good.

Now the war campaign was a disaster. You have nonsensical tactics like Sylvanas trying to blight the whole city. And before some Sylvanas fanboy comes here and say the plan was perfect and it would work if not for Jaina being there last minute let me remind you guys that Alleria teleported a ton of soldiers inside the walls and could easily teleport five people out if she wanted.

Or the fact Teldrassil burned that easily, or the night elves not having a proper resolution, or all characters who where supposed to rebel pronto for some reason waited a lot for it like Baine, Lorthemar and Thalysra.

Or the fact they decided to just shove in Nazjatar and N’zoth in a hasty and lazy way.

I refuse to believe this was planed. It looked like they where in a hurry and where more concerned about giving the expansion some cool cinematics than giving us a cool story.

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That’s the sad thing(for you I thought the story was ok) it was planned there was no rewrite only minor stuff like changing the quillboar attack but it all points to being set making a game takes a long time specially art assets bfa was 100% planned

My biggest issue is that moral parity between the factions was ruined from the start.

Horde commits genocide, Alliance defends itself. Horde’s Warchief is ominous and evil, Alliance’s King is a peace-loving boyscout. Horde ignores the fact that Sylvanas turns their faction into a warcrime simulator, Alliance feels justified in fighting the Horde in every aspect of their story.

It doesn’t help that the only Horde leader who “turned” on Sylvanas just gave up on the faction in the first place.

This wasn’t a morally grey storyline. It was a repeat of Garrosh’s arch, except the Horde didn’t even turn on their evil Warchief en masse this time. She just left them.

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As the Joker would say “And here we goooo”

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I was just reminded of another thing that points to a massive rewrite, Rexxar claims that the will take back their lands when invading kul tiras, this makes literally no sense in current BfA, but makes a lot more if it was written before the theoretical rewrite.

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Lillian Voss also seems like a huge head scratcher to me.

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Lol that’s just a dead end plot every xpac does those it’s called cut content

If this were true, why does the story end with a half assed redemption?

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Probably a mix of the insane amount of backlash they received and needing to actually end the conflict while keeping the horde as a faction that exist.

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They make the cgi cutscenes ahead of time. I don’t think our outcry changed much.

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Don’t forget that it takes like months and months to make high quality cinematic like the Saurfang ones

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I’m pretty sure they said at some point during this expansion that they’ve found a way to massively cut the time needed to make cinematics from months to weeks.

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