Bfa survival is awful

[Yura-area-52 (Yura)]

Just want to make everyone else to be miserable, or am I missing something?

does disagreeing about a spec make you miserable or something?

[Whim-emerald-dream]

does disagreeing about a spec make you miserable or something?

There’s disagreeing and there’s outright mocking. A lot of your posts in this thread are borderline trolling.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

It’s become quite petty hasn’t it?

[Whim-emerald-dream]

We past petty in 2018.

[Nokcolo-malganis]

Look, I’m on my phone so I’ll be brief. Do you know how to Kite as SV? Everything I just quoted here says that you don’t, and that you don’t want us to notice.

If you’re not able to read it or take the time to understand it then don’t reply because you’re coming back with nonsense and telling some one they don’t know how to play when they’ve just explained kiting as a survival and it’s right there in the post.
im going to highlight it again for you to understand how to play around rooting and throwing traps which is still not enough to efficiently kite melee with the tool kits they have.

Where 80% of the time you’re using it to kite against all other melee specs after you root them with the harpoon into Aspect of the cheetah, and 20% of it being used for pressure when you’re out ranged by caster’s.

and yes lacking kiting abilities is right. I didn’t say they don’t have kiting abilities i said they are lacking them.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

Wing clip, tar trap, freezing trap, disengage, aspect of the cheetah, and intimidation are all pretty good for kiting. I don’t see what’s lacking.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

That’s not even getting into pvp talents.

[Whim-emerald-dream]

It’s not lacking kiting abilities, but someone beat me to it. Calm down and relax. Rooting with Harpoon… I’ve never done that. I’ve used Harpoon to apply WC, but it’s not like Charge and its stun. They can keep moving with Harpoon.

[Entrerri-proudmoore]

The fact he doesn’t know how to kite on a surv hunter should preclude any further responses to him. He’s bad and thinks it’s the class and not him.

[Whim-emerald-dream]

What he’s doing is using wowhead for abilities. It does apply a 3 second root, but there are way too many ways around it. The fact that he’s relying on it is rather bad.

You are better off saving Harpoon for when there is an escape being made. Blink, Charger, Grappling Hook. It can be used when you are blowing them up by dropping CDs (Pot, Trinkets, and CA) but be prepared to hit Disengage. I would never really want to wast a CA on kiting either. WC and Tar will more likely be your best kiting tools. There is Tracker’s Net, which is awesome, but I’m not counting PvP talents at the moment. Master’s Call is one of the best tools we have. If you need to use the gimmick then do so. It’s also best to save Intimidation for when you need it because you have to make sure that you pet is attacking what you want to stun. Now when it comes to PvP Talents, make sure to have RoS and Tracker’s Net, they are key, and I prefer the Net to Harpoon. I mean I could go on, but I really want to talk about scenarios when it comes to Kiting and at that point it’s more of a guide.

[Bepples-khazgoroth (Bepples)]

That’s not it. Sub is worse as you mentioned, and it’s still a long serving melee spec. The truth is that it’s not struggling. It’s the top PvP Spec, which is something we love to ignore here. It’s a relatively new spec that’s mid-level damage the bulk of the time it’s existed. What would happen if it was given to Outlaw’s level of damage?

Sub has other serious core issues that SV does not have. SV has all the ingredients to be a successful spec. It is struggling with respect to its reputation and ability to appeal to an audience, hence its low representation and undesirability in most end-game content. So we need to look at what is uniquely keeping Survival back; something that doesn’t happen for other melee specs. And that’s the fact that, as you said, it’s a “relatively new spec”. It had zero established familiarity when it was made and it inherently excites people less than something like a new class.

It’s only the top PvP spec because it’s been artificially tuned to a high level and the only other spec we have that has a half-decent toolkit for PvP was nerfed to the ground. 7.0 SV was our top PVP spec, too, and it didn’t save that spec. It’s still a very average PvP spec and it’s in a worse position than the last ranged iteration. I’ve actually been told that they need to keep SV melee because it would be too OP as a ranged spec, which only confirms that being melee is a straight-up nerf over being ranged (something SV Hunters today never admit).

I thought Uldir put to rest the notion that damage output is what’s holding SV back but I guess knowing the average quality of arguments on this forum I should have known better.

My caster/ranged buddies hate dueling me on my SV Hunter because I can maintain pressure in melee and range. I’m not sure why people discount the flexibility of being able to deal substantial damage at both melee and range, but it can be very advantageous.

Personally, I’m not sure why SV Hunters continue to pretend we care about their shaky, unreliable anecdotes.

Ranged survival was the least played hunter spec of the 3, it only saw majority play in a few patches when it’s damage was completely broken.

It’s “core” audience was you and 4 other smucks that herpaderp about the forums whining about the 2 patches in 15 years where it saw play.

Ranged Survival more often than not was a very popular spec, and even achieved the #1 spot for all specs in the game in a couple patches. So your point here is pretty much opposite to the truth. Good job. Even if it were true melee Survival has had 0 patches as a popular spec, and 0 is less than 2.

I have a feeling that Survival is going to remain Melee and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Once Blizzard embarks on a design direction there is seemingly no amount of community outcry that can change the trajectory. Outlaw Rogue is a perfect example of changes that nobody wanted (Roll the Bones) sticking regardless of reception. Numerous former Combat Rogues abandoned the spec because they couldn’t stand what it had become. The forums were littered with posts about awful RNG and how energy regeneration was broken. There were people on the Rogue forum that complained about the changes with such frequency and gusto that it made Bepples look like an amature. The core class design has remained unchanged.

Didn’t the spec, and that mechanic in particular, undergo significant changes in BFA?

There have been plenty of times where they’ve changed their design trajectory due to community outcry. Vulnerable didn’t even last beyond one expansion, for example.

Wing clip, tar trap, freezing trap, disengage, aspect of the cheetah, and intimidation are all pretty good for kiting. I don’t see what’s lacking.

These are all available for BM (with Concussive Shot instead of Wing Clip) and BM can do 100% damage while ranged whereas SV cannot. SV does have a couple of unique PvP talents that help, but again: melee damage dependency. Aspect of the Eagle is only available sometimes.

They are still lacking, too, because melee Hunters have CC and gap closers out the @$$ since Legion as well as copious burst damage, self-healing, and even ranged damage at this point. Hunters struggle against most melee classes and this shows in the representation ; almost every single melee spec is ahead of Hunters in arena representation (I count 4 melee specs that are below BM and SV, and 0 that are below MM… keep in mind there are 12 melee specs other than Survival). This kiting toolkit was great for kiting… a few expansions ago. But compared to modern melee toolkits it is lacking.

To the rest of the breathless SV defenders in this thread: go look at how SV played and performed in PvP during WoD and come back and tell me that SV is some master-kiter PvP spec now (let’s not even mention the sheer absurdity of a melee spec depending on kiting to beat other melee specs).

[Whim-emerald-dream]

Sub has other serious core issues that SV does not have.

I know, believe me I know. My wife is talking to me about switching to my Rogue as my main for our(her) RP.

I thought Uldir put to rest the notion that damage output is what’s holding SV back but I guess knowing the average quality of arguments on this forum I should have known better.

I’ll admit that I’m open to the idea, but I’ve got too much going on ATM to think about it.

Personally, I’m not sure why SV Hunters continue to pretend we care about their shaky, unreliable anecdotes.

It’s a lot like how we wonder how some hunters can still rage at something that happened three years ago and then act like it’s going to trigger us. Not to pick a fight, but that’s as close as I can make it and have it still be understood.

These are all available for BM (with Concussive Shot instead of Wing Clip) and BM can do 100% damage while ranged whereas SV cannot. SV does have a couple of unique PvP talents that help, but again: melee damage dependency. Aspect of the Eagle is only available sometimes.

You missed the point of what he was saying but you do bring up your points better here better than the other guy, and honestly better than I am tonight since I want to use scenarios to explain SV Kiting to people who don’t seem, or admit that they don’t really know how to play SV. There is only so much wowhead and a few minutes in Alpha can get you.

To the rest of the breathless SV defenders in this thread: go look at how SV played and performed in PvP during WoD and come back and tell me that SV is some master-kiter PvP spec now (let’s not even mention the sheer absurdity of a melee spec depending on kiting to beat other melee specs).

It’s not that different in terms of skill and SV now is more fun. Better burst now, for sure. But it’s also an apples versus oranges comparison.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

Didn’t the spec, and that mechanic in particular, undergo significant changes in BFA?

They made some quality of life changes during Legion using the artifact weapon that made it to BFA via talents, but those talents share a row with other talents thay are practically mandatory. The class still has the RNG element that frustrated many players when Roll the Bones was first introduced.

These are all available for BM (with Concussive Shot instead of Wing Clip) and BM can do 100% damage while ranged whereas SV cannot. SV does have a couple of unique PvP talents that help, but again: melee damage dependency. Aspect of the Eagle is only available sometimes.

My point was that SV is quite capable of kiting. I demonstrated that. I wasn’t comparing it to MM or BM. It’s ranged abilities are not as strong as BM or MM, but SV brings massive damage in melee range. It’s a double edged sword that makes the class fun and interesting to myself and others. Obviously you don’t feel the same. Much of this is subjective.

[Yura-area-52 (Yura)]

I’m not sure why people discount the flexibility of being able to deal substantial damage at both melee and range, but it can be very advantageous.

every hunter spec can do damage in melee range this isn’t 2009.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

every hunter spec can do damage in melee range this isn’t 2009.

I don’t recall suggesting otherwise. What I will argue is that Survival does more damage in melee range than BM or MM does in either melee or range. I suppose the extra damage could be seen as a melee tax.

[Whim-emerald-dream]

It’s not lacking kiting abilities, but someone beat me to it. Calm down and relax. Rooting with Harpoon… I’ve never done that. I’ve used Harpoon to apply WC, but it’s not like Charge and its stun. They can keep moving with Harpoon.

This Nokcolo is called a gimme. I’m sure that you are taking and running with it, but I don’t use it because it puts them in place, I use Tracker’s Net for that more since Gap Openers will be used almost immediately it they do, or in PvE, I might need it to close a gap on a ganking ranged. But please, please use it.

Heck, I’m leaving for the night. Enjoy it everyone.

[Nokcolo-malganis]

Wing clip, tar trap, freezing trap, disengage, aspect of the cheetah, and intimidation are all pretty good for kiting. I don’t see what’s lacking.

um no and this lets me know you’ve never played deeply into the class enough to see it’s problems in pvp. you’re not kiting a demon hunter, you’re barely kiting a rogue, warrior, and dk with those hell you’re not kiting a paladin for sure and you’re definitely not kiting monk or a druid.
of course you can’t see what its lacking if you don’t play the class against other melee specs.

That’s not even getting into pvp talents.

please get into the breakable roots which is completely useless if you want to kite and do damage from serpent sting or wildfire bomb from afar, oh you want to use that weak hi-explosive trap it’s ok im just going to use that second charge on my warrior, or my freedom on my paladan you can obviously see where this is going and just incase if you can’t it’s plain and simple other classes have more than what it takes to get into melee range and lock you down. Why because those abilities help them go against pure caster’s which survival isn’t, it’s some weird melee spec.

It’s not lacking kiting abilities, but someone beat me to it. Calm down and relax. Rooting with Harpoon… I’ve never done that. I’ve used Harpoon to apply WC, but it’s not like Charge and its stun. They can keep moving with Harpoon.

you’ve never focused harpoon rooted into a freezing ?

The fact he doesn’t know how to kite on a surv hunter should preclude any further responses to him. He’s bad and thinks it’s the class and not him.

Ill duel you any day of the week as an assassination rogue or monk to prove to you, that you cannot kite me as well as you say you can. i will shut you down and shut you up so badly.

What he’s doing is using wowhead for abilities. It does apply a 3 second root, but there are way too many ways around it. The fact that he’s relying on it is rather bad.

see what i have to do to you is not only show experience but prove because it seems to me like you’ve never dueled a warrior or a demon hunter.

WC and Tar will more likely be your best kiting tools.

tar will not work effectively against paladins, warriors, rogues, monks, and demon hunters. Because when you use tar at that point you’re going into kiting mode, you either one disengaged or cheetahed now at this point in time you know what usually happens ? gap closer 1 into either a stun, slow, or a root.

There is Tracker’s Net, which is awesome, but I’m not counting PvP talents at the moment.

which is completely weak and you’re wrong, its a horrible talent and its only worth is using it to try to net heals out of range from the dps or behind pillar.
You’re lying if you’re saying that you’re using it to kite and do damage because it breaks the instant damage is dealt.

It’s also best to save Intimidation for when you need it because you have to make sure that you pet is attacking what you want to stun.

not really, it’s best to save intimidation for when you need to get into kiting range after they pop their cd’s or when you need to stop a demon hunter from eye beams because the damage is inane.

Now when it comes to PvP Talents, make sure to have RoS and Tracker’s Net, they are key, and I prefer the Net to Harpoon.

Trackers net is not going to work. Ros is the only thing that helps but the moment it’s gone so are you if you don’t use exhil or turtle.

[Entrerri-proudmoore]

You don’t even understand the basics of how abilities work… go back to the shallow end skippy.

[Nokcolo-malganis]

yeah just run away and prove nothing.

[Dynan-frostmane (Dynan)]

Ill duel you any day of the week as an assassination rogue

So your sprint and single shadowstep are going to keep you on him like glue huh?