Bfa survival is awful

Naham-argent-dawn · July 16, 2019, 8:25pm

I still think that I was coming off a little more harsh to the rest of the RSV crowd. Thanks though.

anon33954387 · July 16, 2019, 8:31pm

I’m all for deleting survival at this point. Give us two specs, but at least make them good for all the trouble you’ve put us through, Blizzard.

Naham-argent-dawn · July 16, 2019, 8:34pm

Leaves the guys like me without a Spec… again

Kindwolf-emerald-dream · July 16, 2019, 10:40pm

Meanwhile MSV is one of the best 1v1 specs on the game. Fml

Bepples-barthilas · July 16, 2019, 11:02pm

I don’t know if it’s the quality of SV Hunter I’m fighting but SV is effectively the only melee spec I’ve been able to reliably beat in 1v1 as Marksmanship… and MM sucks at 1v1.

Naham-argent-dawn · July 16, 2019, 11:12pm

Probably the quality of the Hunter. MM and BM never gave me issues. Ret has, Frost Mage has, but I’ve never fought either one of them alone. They usually run in packs from ED when I see them.

Kindwolf-emerald-dream · July 16, 2019, 11:14pm

I only have problems with UH…or mages if they blow me up before I see them.

Ghorak-laughing-skull · July 17, 2019, 8:57am

Oooh, I don’t know about that. We’ve seen what the outcome from deleting specs have been in the past.

I really hope that they’ve learnt their lesson on that.

Not to sound like a broken record but, it doesn’t have to be a case of either-or. If there is a way that they can keep all the different spec options that we want(meaning, bringing the old ranged SV playstyle back in addition to existing specs), this is what I would be all for.

As for the current specs tied to the class, we all think different about them. Some we love(maybe), some we hate. That’s just how it is and will always be really.

I doubt that deleting 1 out of 3 specs will make the remaining two much better.
As it’s a matter of design direction within those specifically.

They have made so many large changes to our existing specs in late years that, the likelihood that they well be anywhere near perfect at this stage…no, I would say that they would need at least another expansions worth of iterating over them(without making new overhauls to them).

I know that many are very hesitant towards the concept of adding a 4th spec option. There is a reason for why. I get it.
But I just keep hoping that, the more people who start asking for this option, the more it will convince the devs that this is something which is worth the time spent.

That would be sad!

Naham-argent-dawn · July 17, 2019, 11:04am

yup, but it’s what the bulk of your side wants

Ghorak-laughing-skull · July 17, 2019, 1:42pm

It’s what many players argue for yes.

Though I want to stress how I’m not agreeing with that.

That is not my side at all.

I had hoped that the things I’ve written in the past highlights that I very much want the MSV spec to stay, alongside BM, alongside MM. AND, alongside a 4th spec that is ranged SV.

Inkarran-area-52 · July 17, 2019, 2:04pm

Before I’m lumped in here. I suggested a 4th spec about 400 comments ago.

If you like msrv, more power to you. Keep it. Idc. I’d just like the spec back that is the reason I made this toon and have 250+ days of playtime on.

I have very little interest in melee or casters. Rsurvival was the only unique spec out there to me. But I digress.

Kindwolf-emerald-dream · July 17, 2019, 3:04pm

I like that y’all calling for a fourth spec have tact. But I just don’t see how it’s possible.

Druids getting Feral as a fourth spec, although very warranted, gave the developers and druid players a lot of headaches, for a long time.

And you know it’s a slippery slope…What class will call for another spec next? You know DH’s will cry foul…

I really think you’d have more luck getting them to make the RSV playstyle with MM talents. I mean, they’re already headed in that direction…

Ghorak-laughing-skull · July 17, 2019, 4:15pm

<3

I’m of the same exact opinion.

There was a reason for why I played that spec for so many years.

Because you’re of the same mindset that the devs for the most part, have been of in the past. Now, ofc I cannot say what they think about a 4th spec option now.

I just choose to remain hopeful that, if it can be shown that a 4th spec is unique enough, has an identity of it’s own, and also, fills a void within the class it’s intended for in regards to what types of ways you deal damage to enemies.
I choose to remain hopeful that this can convince the devs to jump on it.

Yep, it did. A lot of specs and design decisions did as well when we went into Legion. As well as when we went into BfA.
Big class changes always result in this.

Ofc it most likely will trigger other players in regards to their own classes as well. Everyone wants more.

But if we take DH as an example. They currently have 2 specs. 1 tank and 1 DD.
What unique playstyle for DHs is currently missing? What would be justified to bring in as a separate spec for that class?

Just the other day on the EU forums, we had a topic created where someone was asking for a 4th spec for the hunter class.
The only really unique aspect of that design compared to that of current MSV, was that he wanted the spec to be all about fighting with 2x 1-handed weapons. He wanted Dual Wielding.
#https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-4-hunter-spec-idea/61703

Would you say that this warrants a separate 4th-spec option for the class?
Would you say that this design caters towards the class fantasy of Hunters?

I don’t want to dismiss others. But to me, that sounds just like a different version of MSV with several aspects of Rogue and Warrior in it.

I have several things regarding the current BM spec that I want to change. I have posted them on he forum earlier.
But it’s still a BM design. It’s not a new playstyle.

Same as my previous suggestions regarding MSV. With those, the spec would play a bit different from what it does now. Being more focused on melee combat for one.
But it would still be a version of MSV.

Maybe. But, their attempts so far have been fairly horrible. IMO.
I would go as far as to say that nothing they can implement into current MM, while still keeping it’s main focus. Would give us that old playstyle that was RSV.

At the most, we could get a part of that playstyle back. But that wouldn’t make it better. Quite the opposite.

As evident with what people have said about it since the start of Legion.

Taurseye-area-52 · July 17, 2019, 8:46pm

Yeah working it into marks doesn’t work. You need the mastery too. Without the mastery, your dots can’t be tuned up once you hit certain ilvls.

Needs its own spec. Own mastery.

Kindwolf-emerald-dream · July 18, 2019, 12:26am

I disagree, especially now that we have essence and Azerite trait customization.

A run and gun spec with crucible is fun! Try it out…dots…mobility…CC. the whole shebang.

I’m sure it’s not a meta spec but neither was RSV for most of its existence.

Taurseye-area-52 · July 18, 2019, 5:09am

From ICC until the end of SoO it was a top raiding spec.

Wasn’t ever a great PvP spec. Most dot classes aren’t though(I said most, not all)

And after 4 ish years now, do you really think people haven’t tried msrv? Warriors and rogues just do it better. Granted warriors need some buffs but still a more complete tool set for pve and PvP.

Inkarran-area-52 · July 18, 2019, 6:01am

I rarely PvP, which is most of what your toon is. And I’m glad you enjoy msrv. I just want a fourth ranged spec for pve. Lol I promise to never take the ranged physical and dots, into a bg . Now marks. I enjoyed that when we had our stuns and mobility I’m PvP. That was fun

Yura-area-52 · July 18, 2019, 6:16am

they won’t do a 4th spec. we must play arcane mage with arrows or remote control pet specs. no inbetween allowed.

Bepples-barthilas · July 18, 2019, 6:26am

It was great for battlegrounds but less impressive in arenas because Black Arrow could be dispelled, denying SV of a huge source of both raw damage and Lock and Load procs. In WoD they made Black Arrow’s CD reset when it got dispelled. This led to SV quickly dominating the Hunter PvP scene for that entire expansion.

anon86204805 · July 18, 2019, 8:04am

As an avid lover of BFA’s iteration of SV, i thought I’d dip my 2c into this thread:

While I can understand the loss players have with the outright removal of RSV, I believe reverting the change back to ranged would be outright unfortunate.

The discussion on a 4th spec (while it doesn’t hurt) does seem to conflict with a previous Q&A that had stated that expanding into such designs would be unlikely. Feral/Guardian had the the situation of one spec holding 2 roles, of which I could assume splitting those roles into specs would be more desirable, but not something they’d want to repeat.

While I also love the idea of giving the option to switch between RSV and MSV through talents, I really can not see this happening either (I’d love to be wrong with Blizz doing a complete 180º on design intentions behind this limitation). Though SV gameplay today, if it had switched to ranged, would be very, very similar to BM, and not resembling past RSV builds.

We could assess the limited options:
Avoiding the removal of MSV.
Avoiding changes to BM (as it would produce further mess).
Constrained to 3 specs.

To be honest, MM is a prime candidate for large 9.0 changes.
If it was to be designed effectively, in a way that emulated previous RSV, would that be something others would consider? Would this upset both MM and RSV players?