Bfa is at 8.2. How do we feel about surv hunter

Community General Discussion
91

I like it - I mean my survival hunter (yes I level different characters for different specs sometimes… don’t ask, I have a problem) is still pretty low level, 35, I’m having soooo much fun.

I haven’t tried Marks, I think that’ll be the one I combine on this character low. I like levelling and find it kind of relaxing to learn new specs and making a new character that fits that spec aesthetically (again, I have a problem).

Beast Mastery is freaking amazing, though that’ll always be the main spec on this character.

I am rambling.

92

would prefer if they go back to range dot class.

melee feels off. And I want to play melee have plenty of other better classes to choose from.

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93

Give me a dual wield option. I like 2h but I want the option to be dual

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94

NO ONE asked for Survival to become a melee Hunter, the devs made that decision all on their own. The game is FULL of melee it is OVERCROWDED with it, there were 3 total specs of physical ranged dps in the game all in the Hunter Class…now there are 2 with what 25 or 30 melee specs in the game…or more?

But we are where we are so i hope those playing it like it.

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From Gamescon 2017 and Lead Developer Ion Hazzikostas:

Q: In general, how do you feel about the balance of the classes right now? Warcraftlogs says Survival Hunters are the least represented spec right now, and are there any concerns about some classes or specs?
A: Representation doesn’t necessarily matter as much, I think. We knew with Survival Hunter that we were making a niche spec. It is a melee spec for a class that has traditionally being range. I think that a lot of existing hunters, they are all hunters because they want to be a range class, and so we don’t necessarily expect them or want them to feel like they should be changing; but for new players picking up that class, it is an intriguing option; and we have seen a lot of Survival Hunters doing extremely well at very high levels of play. So the fact that they are not playing as often, I don’t think reflects upon their potential so much as it just does where the audience is at right now. That’s not much of a problem.

But apparently it did matter because they did a second fairly dramatic rework of the specialization for BFA trying to make it more acceptable to the players they discounted when they made the change only to see a marginal increase in representation.

Per his own words they knew that they were making a specialization that didn’t appeal to players who actually chose the most popular Class in the game because it offered the only mobile, ranged, physical damage play styles thus in essence feeling like melee in terms of rotations but with the benefit of being able to see more than the bosses ankles and buttocks.

So they deliberately chose to remove 1 of only 3 options of a unique play style, theme, and aesthetic in order to add a 13th version of a melee DPS and 19th version of melee fantasy in general. Which would be like Coca Cola removing Diet Coke in order to make Diet Cherry Root Beer because “some people” might like that, regardless of whether or not “more people” preferred regular Diet Coke.

This is further compounded by the fact that they then took the remaining 2 Hunter specializations and over-specialized them to polar opposites removing much of the class similarities.

Beast Mastery lost most of it’s ranged attacks, and in particular nicer looking attacks and hard hitting attacks in order to become what amounts to a pet buff bot.

Marksmanship went to slower, less “bursty”, more “caster”, and more or less more immobile while also being more mechanically annoying.

Neither of which would be a problem if there was still a middle ground between all pet/little player damage and no pet/all player damage not fun to play.

I went from multiple Hunters and Hunter mains to zero ranged characters at all. And none of my all melee characters are Survival Hunters because, in my opinion, the older and more established melee specializations have better (and more concise) fantasies, play styles, and aesthetics/animations.

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96

Well, cannot argue against you on this. There are never any guarantees here…

Although still, I have my doubts. Granted that they kinda went back on the first melee version we got in Legion and made it…what it is today. But for them to fully abandon that melee’ish approach to go back to ranged…
The thing is, as long as we keep the mindset that it has to be either-or. It will always upset someone, no matter the outcome.

There might not be a ton of players that love the new SV spec, but there are those that do so. So…

…yeah, this! :slight_smile:

#[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion/Ranged Survival

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97

It’s my favorite hunter spec and likely one of my favorite specs for any toon. It has a lot of tools in its kit.

This is coming from someone with a warlock, DK, Rogue, Monk, and a DH. I enjoyed survival in Legion and am glad I chose to main it in BFA.

The lucid dreams ability for the necklace has really smoothed out the focus issue that kind-of plagued survival hunt, but once you get your haste above 20% base it feels better.

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98

I off spec it for giggles. The mobility and AoE are pretty solid, and the bit of control and bit of range options gives you some versatility. Overall, it is a fun, useful spec.

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99

So for those that are arguing back and forth using anecdotal data as evidence, why not actually source this “data”?
Do sources not exist anymore or is it just laziness because a person believes their memories of past events/data are a 1 for 1 comparison to the actual events/data?

100

I like the current iteration of Surv. It had a bad flow in Legion and they made it better in BFA. Still not perfect, I personally feels best when I speced into mongoose for the charges on your primary attack and primal for the charges on kill command. Bake those in and I would be cool. The grenades range cone is neat and I like how it works with cleave.

As I think about Aspect of the Hawk I do wonder if they couldn’t remove it and split the spec a bit. Make it a talent that lets you just use a ranged weapon for autos and Raptor strike could be Raptor shot? I personally like being a hunter with a big sword or spear on my back but there is only Raptor Strike and Wing Clip holding us to melee. Make it an option to go either way.

101

I’ve Love Surv Hunter, it’s amazing. I Top damage in runs of my guild mates of M+. I like the feeling and gameplay of that spec, but I fear, that now that blizz will be focus on working on classes rather that spec, they decide to kill melee hunters, I like to have options.

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Sources are problematic in that they either aren’t complete or no longer exist.

I’m pretty sure sites like warcraftlogs don’t have snapshots of raid numbers during their peaks while current that you can access to see those participation levels at those specific times. Just like warcraftrealms doesn’t show activity trends going back past a year. Meanwhile worldofwargraphs only takes a snapshot of characters with Mythic kills.

For the latter, you can see and compare the trends in participation for all 3 Hunter specializations over time and with a little work can match that up with specific tiers/patches. Which, in the period it still covers, show that Marksmanship was the least played Hunter spec in their data models right up until Survival got crippled in WoD and Marksmanship got fully mobile super spammy Aimed Shots. Then MM dropped again with Vulnerable and BFA.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes/hunter/survival#
https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes/hunter/marksmanship
https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes/hunter/beastmastery

Of course, none of these sites go back all the way to Vanilla and the percentage distributions are all based on current numbers so there’s no real way to see “popularity” over the lifespan of WoW. Yet, from what limited data we have, it’s pretty clear to see that the change to melee for Survival and the continual move towards weird and often situational mechanics for MM have cemented Beast Mastery as the most solid Hunter specialization. I mean it is remains the most player mobile and instant attack based ranged shooter.

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103

Look, I get that people miss OG SV, and some people hate the fact that its just another melee, but it lets me play as an Orc with a giant axe and a wolf so f*ck you thats why its awesome.

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104

That’s always something that worries me when the devs decide to do massive shake-ups in design philosophies and when developers in general decide to engage in pendulum swinging (the latter of which happens far too often in the video game industry).

I don’t think melee Survival should be deleted in favor of bringing back ranged Survival. I think ranged Survival should be brought back in some form such as a fourth spec, which would simply avoid causing more complaints about deleted play styles in the first place.

Above thread is a pretty good example of how the ranged Survival gameplay should be brought back.

On a side note, I also do not want the devs to prune Pistol Shot and Between the Eyes, either. Glyphs that change the aesthetics of the abilities would be fine, they just shouldn’t be pruned simply because some players complain about Outlaw Rogues using guns.

Plenty of players now actually like Pistol Shot and Between the Eyes, while others would like to be able to change their visuals to thrown weapons through Glyphs.

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Like many of the more recent replies show, we have several players who do like/love the current iteration of the Survival spec.

Which makes for my point really. As long as we keep arguing that: The spec has to be ranged again vs. NO, it has to be melee! As long as we continue with this, we won’t get anywhere.

If the devs keep it still focused on melee gameplay, then those of us who loved that old ranged DoT-spec, we will continue to petition for a playable version like that to come back. If they instead change it back to be a ranged spec, then those who currently like it as it is, in BfA, then they will feel neglected as well.
We are different, we all have our preferences on what playstyle we like.

Besides, it’s not like a 4th spec option cannot be done, it’s just a matter of changing the minds of the devs that there is justification for giving us one.

Idd.
My first thought when I saw that they were changing SV into a melee spec was: Okay, you want to bring in the focus on melee combat to the Hunter class, it’s essentially a completely new playstyle for the class, so why not give us a 4th spec from the start?

Yep, I’ve posted my share of replies in there as well.
I came into it fairly late though. Think my first reply came as number 431 or something. Yeah, this one: We need range Survival Hunters back - #457 by Ghorak-laughing-skull

I’m a EU player so, prior to the post in the link, I haven’t done any posts on the US forums. I went over here because I like the increased activity on these forums compared to EU. These forums show about 10 times the number of daily visitors and people engaging in discussions compared to that of EU forums.

Now, as far as changing the minds of the devs towards that 4th spec option, I have no idea if they(devs or other mods) even bother to engage in a thread with so many replies.
But, if I don’t post any replies containing my motivation behind my suggestions, or if I don’t post any suggestions at all, then they certainly won’t see them. This is just how I choose to look at it.
Which is why I create topics like this one as well: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/4th-spec-pre-legion-survival-spec-fantasy/47579

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Warrior: Protection, Arms, Fury
Paladin: Protection, Retribution
Druid: Guardian, Feral
Shaman: Enhancement
Demon Hunter: Vengeance, Havoc
Monk: Brewmaster, Windwalker (sort of even Mistweaver)
Death Knight: Blood, Frost, Unholy (gets a pet too)
Rogue: Outlaw, Subtlety, Assassination

Those are all your options for melee fantasies.

Hunter: Beast Mastery, Marksmanship

Those are the only options for Ranged Shooter/Physical Damage dealer.

If you look at Beast Mastery logs for the top Hunter rankings you will see up to nearly 75% of damage being all pet based with 2/3 of that damage being melee white damage. Meanwhile the top PC attack is Auto Shot. This really doesn’t translate to feeling like a Ranged Shooter at all.

The player doesn’t have any high damage ability to fall back on for whatever reason. The closest you get are Kill Command and Chimaera Shot (if taken) and those aren’t particularly that strong.

If you compare that to your melee physical damage dealers you’ll see a lot more player activated attacks being the top damage dealing abilities which translates to having abilities that actually feel impactful to use, not just to look at on parses.

For Marksmanship, you at least get to have Aimed Shot that feels good to use as far as damage goes, until you start getting into the actual mechanics and interplay between abilities which turns players away from the specialization. Particularly in a Class known for high mobility and instant casts and short channels having your main and major damage ability being a long cast, immobile shot doesn’t help.

Ranged Survival at least had a blend of steady DoT damage, high damage proc based instant cast abilities, along with pet and trap utility and great mobility.

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107

No it doesn’t. And IMO, it shouldn’t either.

Beast Mastery - main focus on pet enhancement, either via your primary pet or by calling in additional beasts. Any attacks made by you as the hunter, should be done via a ranged weapon.

Marksmanship - the ranger spec. Should not promote gameplay based on pets in any way. You can play with a pet if you want, but nothing baseline nor any talents should focus on enhancing your pet. IMO.

Melee Survival - main focus should be…melee-combat(in the style of the hunter class). You can have some optional ways/talents that involve your pet.

(4th spec) Ranged Survival(new name maybe?) - main focus should be ranged combat, with you enhancing your ammunition(bullets/arrows), rather than focusing on perfect aim(archery). Like with Melee Survival, you should have optional ways/talents that lets you focus on enhancing your pet.

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108

And I would disagree because historically we had a spec with a larger focus on player abilities, a single hard hitting pet attack, and more than a few passive interactions between PC and Pet that strengthened each other’s attacks either through extra focus, extra haste, or higher damage.

Which fit the theme of a Ranged Shooter (first) working in tandem with an animal companion that Blizzard describes as being kin and sharing a profound bond with the Hunter.

I don’t get that kinship feeling with Beast Mastery anymore. I get the feeling of a Lion Tamer cracking a whip or a Retriever trainer whistling and shouting directions (and Dire Beast using a whistle emote reinforced this).

Definitely not like having multiple different shots or ranged attacks including some particularly hard hitting talent options. Or having your own personal selection of pets to call out for a controlled burst of damage via following your target and also swapping targets with you as well as providing their own minor threat protection.

Now, if you still had a ranged Survival spec with it’s DoT steady damage and Explosive Shot impactful damage where there’s the utility aspect of the pet for positioning and threat management you would still feel more like that partnership that Hunter’s used to have.

Also, I balk at the term “enhancement”. Demonology being based on fel magic and summoning magical minions enhances it’s “pets” to do more damage. Beast Mastery effectively says “attack”, “attack harder”, and “attack faster”.

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109

My main has been survival full-time since the patch dropped and loves it. Legion it was a bit clunky and unforgiving but besides dealing with a bit too many dots on top of mongoose and pet I enjoy survival.

With that said I worry about it’s future because it straddles the line between melee and ranged to the point that any balancing issues could result in disaster.

Besides a CD the player must be in melee range to raptor strike (the bulk of their damage) and carve but otherwise they can sting and bomb from 40 yards and KC from 50 yards. I played a frost mage since vanilla and still do, and I’ve seen countless times where PvP balance had turned the spec to crap. I just have that foreboding feeling with survival down the line when haste gets higher and higher.

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I never said that this is what I think the current BM spec is like. I think that BM can be improved A LOT still.

I just said that, considering the general spec design today, I would like for my above statement to be accurate.

Agreed.

Idd.

Which is what I was aiming for when coming up with my spec proposition for that 4th spec option.

Reading time, includes replies as well(not only the OP).

Anything that further includes interacting with or relying on your pet, I’ve placed in via talent options because many today don’t want to rely on pets.
This way, for anyone who wants to, you can so choose to. But if you don’t want to, you can choose something else.