BFA: Alliance Wins and future story telling

Lore Story Forum
102

Siege warfare, by its very nature, requires 10:1 odds, because the attackers will always suffer extreme casualties if they intend to attack a fortification.

It depends on the size of the fortification, but for the size of, say, Orgrimmar, that’s somewhere more comparable to Vienna. 16,000 held off well over 150,000 men and spiked their casualty rate quite high.

When Anduin says “we have enough for one assault, win or lose”, and Alleria Windrunner saying they have precious few soldiers, following up with saying “Sylvanas might be the only force that can stand up to N’zoth”, you can get a rough headcount. The end result is not pretty.

No-one would a-okay that assault on a lance board for anything other purpose than survival, because win or lose, it would result in the total collapse of their mobile forces. Why they went through with it, I don’t know. Theatrics and narrative, probably.

1 Like
103

I dont think so, I mean even in the real world all your efforts can be in vain. No one can predict grand changes in the world or even if they could circumstances beyond their control will prevent them from being able to stop it(see everyone who warned about Covid). Does that mean you just give up and do nothing? Of course not, you keep fighting and struggling because doing nothing will still lead to a worse outcome.

104

Zerde you really need to read the whole post, buddy. Otherwise, I’m’a start thinking the entire idea of context is lost on you.

105

Eh I don’t think you can in this game. Everything else you said is fine but this is WoW they don’t really do numbers. You however did explain why your other statement :

Isn’t really the case. Like you said here:

That’s the main reason why Sylvanas had the advantage in Orgrimmar, not her numbers (which we don’t know for either side). So just because the rebel Horde rejoined Orgrimmar doesn’t necessarily mean they suddenly have more numbers than the Alliance. The factions are ultimately in the same boat.

106

Except in the novellas that started this war Saurfang observed that Orgrimmar would fold like a paper if the Alliance decides to siege it again.

Multiple Entrances.
No way to resupply.
Crumbling infrastructure.

But suddenly… by the end of BFA it’s the Black Gate of Durotar with endless hordes of Horde behind its gate protecting the Dark Lady.

107

Hey, that’s true. Classic Blizzard inconsistency. Actually getting into the city would itself probably still be difficult and Anduin is saying they can’t really afford a prolonged kind of siege, but have to kind of take the city there.

108

Could have the gnomes make some more of their toxin and throw it inside the city. People would run out of there real quick.

That should end the siege quite quickly.

109

This isn’t as big of a deal as you think, given what we saw in-game. Resupply and infrastructure only matter in a battle longer than a single duel. Had the assault gone on for more than, say, a week then yeah, this would be a problem. Regarding multiple points of entry, this could have been resolved by blockading the two other entry points or closing and manning those doors. Again, nothing from what we saw remotely implies a contradiction here, only that none of it became really relevant due to the short duration of the “conflict”.

More worrisome IMO is that now wars can be won by 1v1ing the leaders. Why the hell aren’t all conflicts resolved this way? Why did Saurfang wait so damn long to mak’gora Sylvy? Why not any point earlier when he felt she was leading the Horde down a dark path?

110

It doesn’t matter at all really because Blizzard doesn’t write their story to be consistent or for previous facts have any impact on future development.

There is no consistency.
As for Saurfang’s thought process?
Who knows? He is an Orc. He is devoid of morality or logic.

111

In terms of losses within the lore, the Horde wins out over the Alliance, but the damage done to the Horde itself in terms of characterization was just as marked and arguably worse.

The Horde’s losses were all temporary or surgical, there was very little actual destruction, and the loss of Undercity was at the hands of Sylvanas herself. I’ve said this before, but if you think there isn’t some Blight cure Macguffin waiting on the wings, you haven’t been paying attention. Undercity in terms of infrastructure was nearly untouched, once the Blight is cleared. The only real loss there was Brill, and the Forsaken still hold/held all their other zones.

Dazar’alor wasn’t a sack, there was no massive large scale destruction of the city, no looting. The king died, and some important figures, yes, but in terms of losses logistically it’s not exactly repayment. Zandalar immediately gained a more powerful queen, and one who was more willing to work with the Horde. The loss of the Golden Fleet was a loss, that much I’ll grant you.

But one should keep in mind that aaaaall the forces Sylvanas had, the ones that Anduin said made up ‘the only force possibly capable of defeated N’Zoth’, implying that her army was still more numerically superior to the combined Alliance and rebel forces… didn’t go anywhere. Some loyalists were carted off, but the implication is that the Horde united now has the more powerful force. So logistically speaking, and in terms of territory and infrastructure, the Horde ‘won’. Especially since they’ve now gotten rid of the leader who was apparently trying to get them all killed.

One point in the favour of Alliance wins, however: The Kul Tiran fleet wasn’t all destroyed. The number of ships in the cutscene wasn’t nearly enough to be the entire fleet we saw at Boralus. And even if it was, the Alliance still has Anduin’s ship, which is more powerful and advanced than any other naval vessel. So Alliance did win out there.

The Alliance ‘won’ in Arathi but I highly doubt the zone will go full Alliance even in lore, Hammerfall will remain. Darkshore was retaken, but the entire zone of Teldrassil is flat out gone, and we have no idea as to the status of Ashenvale, because the last time the Horde ‘lost’ to the Alliance, they were gifted the night elf lands they’d taken for the sake of peace.

So, looking at it objectively, the Horde ‘won’ the war and are currently in the better spot. They are, however, in a far worse position when it comes to their characterization and story, if only somewhat because boy did things go off the rails after the first four months or so of BfA…

2 Likes