You’re allowed to have whatever headconon you want, not sure your your ww2 example is really relevant to a game though + at blizzcon they said it ended in an armistice. I would not recommend trying to tout headcanon as canon though.
I dont have to headcanon, the alliance never tried to conqueror the horde, it was pretty well known that the alliance only wanted a regime change, and thats what happened.
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Garithos will come back in shadowlands and cleanse the alliance from inhumans
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I agree if the war did continue the alliance would have lost the horde could have continued and won in the long run. So the armistice tie was the best bet to get out before that point came.
I was just saying that the BfA story as a whole was already doomed once someone came up with it, not just the Horde one.
I wasn’t trying to say that there’s anything wrong with your quote.
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Well, irregardless of individual victories(of which, admittedly, the Alliance had several), there was no winner in the war. The Horde was not defeated, and did not surrender. The war ended in a stalemate, with both sides agreeing not to keep fighting.
If anything, the war ended with the Horde in the much stronger position. As, going into the final battle with Sylvanas, Sylvanas was described as having the superior force to the combined Alliance/ Horde rebel forces.
And following the Mok’gora, after suffering only one casualty, the Horde rebels rejoined the rest of the Horde, making the Alliance forces doubly outnumbered at war’s end.
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I mean, those people are frankly incorrect, but I can understand why they did it - rather than face the reality that the Horde did, in fact, lose everything, they hide in Blizzard’s ridiculous ambiguity and dislike of clearing up loose ends.
When you look at the sum total of the parts of the BfA story, the Horde was defeated across the board, and it’s not really an easy thing to accept.
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No it’s not.
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Umm heres one
heres another
Two is mostly to you now?
they arent the only ones theres more in the forums, dont act like they dont exist
Having one of your allies nearly wiped out and ended as a nation, then achieving nothing and accepting peace with no conditions with the Horde because it has stronger military is hardly what I’d call winning. Oh and the Alliance also lost land to the Horde.
But hey who cares what I think 
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I’m not. I dispute the argument that it’s mostly Horde saying the Alliance won nothing, when I have threads upon threads of Alliance players saying they won nothing.
I mean, before I could even respond, one of the usual Alliance players who downplays any Ally win has already responded.
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A partisan of one faction will feel the full extent of damage done to their faction.
The same person will not feel the full extent of damage done to the other faction, particularly if inflicted by their own.
That’s just human nature. It is why fans of specific groups come off as melodramatic or willfully hyperbolic to people outside of those groups. While there are probably individuals who are intentionally exaggerating for effect, or are doing so in specific instances, a great many are entirely genuine given their perspective.
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Well, think of it this way. I love Gallywix as a CHARACTER, but really came to hate him as a LEADER. Not only was his appointment increasingly arbitrary, but every time he showed up he’d hammer home one solid point over … and over … and over again. Essentially, the Goblin PC Faction (the Bilgewater) where nothing more than Greed Filled Lemmings meant to die by the hundreds for Wix himself. Wix was also written in such a way that he would lash out against (or ostracize) any other Gob he was smart enough to realize was a threat to his hegemony; which was essentially a built-in excuse to never develop any other HORDE Goblin Reps.
Gallywix was entertaining, but the Racial Narrative experience under him sucked. 8 years of the same nonsense, while having to look outside the Horde aligned Goblins for any Goblin stories that weren’t them just dying on mass for Wix. So … yeah. I’m very happy that Gazlowe (the Goblin with the longest legacy with the Horde) replaced him. However, I am also glad Gallywix is not dead, and can still be used for future stories. Just not as the monolithic face of a PC Race.
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That nails the Gally problem to a tee.
I mean, total derailment of OT, but hell, that could be its own thread.
Gally is entertaining - this amoral, on the surface idiotic, gold obsessed two dimensional wrecking ball. And the two dimensions? Gold, and not dying.
But he’s like if the Dwarf racial leader was Fargo Flintlocke. That would be hilarious. I love Flintlocke. But there’s not much to the guy, and it certainly wouldn’t be good for the narrative. Instead, as clumsy or forgotten as they are, being WoW characters? I get to enjoy the intertwined arcs of a father who is good at heart, but narrow minded enough that it drives his daughter away, the conflict that results, and said daughter’s arc of going from cloistered away princess, to leader of her father’s old enemies, followed by a form of reconciliation.
And that doesn’t even brush on the Wildhammer story.
Gally was fun after a fashion, but he definitely started to annoy me, both as Horde and Alliance, for the same reason. He acts like a priggish, foolish, buffoon but constantly gets away with it to the point it starts to hurt the characters that interact with him.
I’m glad to see Gazlowe, who, had gobbos been Horde in vanilla, would easily have been the leader, finally take over. Boss Mida would have been fine as well really, but she’s so underdeveloped in comparison at this point, we’d need more of that before she just took over.
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The BFA story just Appears to have done major damage to the story Forum as well… almost like GD. Not the same place it used to be I am afraid.
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Given the something like four examples of that going on between my post and your reply, I will have to agree with you.
The irony of that was not lost on me.
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I would argue there are numerous quotes and posts by Blizzard and the Lore that help support all manner of confusing and contradictory points.
On the Alliance at one point we have them say that they will be recruiting farmers next, and on the other hand are also winning ‘on all fronts’. The Night Elves lost untold multitudes in the burning of Tedrassil, so much so that many now consider them a dying / dead race, but on the other hand they have so many survivors from Tedrassil that they flooded Stormwind (one of the largest cities in Azeroth) and poured out all the way to Goldshire. We have the Void Elves who are in such small numbers that they occupy a small rock in the void (The Rift), not all of those present are even Void Elves, but also have been able to field multiple Void Elf heavy incursions in the story.
At every turn there is likely a bit of evidence to both support and disprove statements for the strength or weakness of just about every major player, and Blizzard has a seeming aversion to dedicating to either side. There’s enough all around to let players who have a motivated desire to see a certain viewpoint find enough evidence to support it. Which makes lore discussions on this sort of thing often devolve into partisan bickering between sides that are arguing what often feels like contradictory information.
If we are talking about future story telling… I do actually feel like the ending of BFA leaves a lot of potentially interesting story lines that could be expanded upon. None of these have to be hostile to either faction, and in fact can help build up both the Alliance and Horde.
For the Alliance we have:
The reclamation of Stormgard. Even if we take the minimal approach and say that they only reclaimed the City, most of the surrounding farms, and up to the Wall that is a massive potential for stories and new developments. (Leaving places like Hammerfall, and Hillsbrad untouched) Rebuilding a fallen kingdom, dealing with the various non-Horde threats in the region, and trying to bring back citizens into the city could all make for interesting developments and narrative that does not require any Horde interaction.
Speaking of cities, with the addition of the Dark Iron Dwarves, the Alliance has one of the more iconic locations in the world, Black Rock Mountain, and the Dark Iron City to play with. That city is a massive fortress with a long history and with a host of immediate problems and opportunities. There is the Dark Iron Highway that leads… somewhere, raging fire elementals, non-horde aligned Orcs in the upper reaches, the remains of the Black Dragon experiments (and their recent Old God Corruption) and more. The Mountain has already been host to several dungeons and raids and could likely serve as an entire questing zone worth of quests, storylines, and challenges for the Alliance to face, ones they can dedicate full attention to now that the War is over.
That is two major pots of potential stories, none of which require dealing with the Horde that is ripe for exploration.
For the Horde, BFA seemed to add a wealth of familiar and new people and lands to the Horde, each with large cities and lands to deal with.
The Ancient city of Suramar already effectively is a questing zone, and can easily host yet more quests and storylines for the Horde to deal with a now allied Nightborne as they deal with problems within the city, the tunnels underneath the city, as well as trying to expand out their influence across the wider Suramar zone. Dealings with Vykrul, Legion Holdouts, the Moonguard, and more all could make for interesting storylines that are free of the Alliance.
Likewise, the zone of Highmountain… and the area beneath Highmountain still has a lot more potential that the Horde can make use of. A large city, farmland, fishing zones, mining rich areas, and after the events of Legion, there is an allied group of Drogbar as well as plenty of subterranean zones to explore. All which can be done without worrying about the Alliance storyline at all.
That is not even touching upon the far trickier topics of the Direct aftermath of the 4th War in affected zones, or the efforts of the Horde and Alliance to try to uphold the Armistice, and try to cool tensions and move forces around without reigniting the War all over again.
If Blizzard wanted, there are nearly endless storyline possibilities for each faction that do not require them to come into conflict with the other, or even interact with the other. Zones like the Barrens, Westfall, Black Rock Mountain, and Suramar all offer plenty of faction specific content in ways that can make players on both factions happy without taking anything away from the other.
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