One can hope, but not holding my breath.
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This hope is literally all I have left for Paladins come Dragonflight. It’s making me feel pretty morose. If the devs (or whomever) are about to reveal a massive revamp for our class, and deconstruct our actual class fantasy and core abilities, I’ll be down to check it out.
Right now, Prot has eight Talents dedicated to Avenger Shield, and Ret has ten Talents dedicated to Judgement. And all three of our specs share like six of the SAME EXACT TALENTS. If they’re planning to revamp us and keep it quiet, cool. If not, then our class CANNOT be taken down by copy / paste.
To Blizzard and the Paladin devs: I will literally throw you concepts for Auras, Blessings, actual Seals, attacks, Judgements and whatever else for Paladins, all day long. I’ll do it for the exposure and experience. No joke.
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Blizz has PLENTY of amazing ideas on the beta forum and here. Ive seen things people post that if they were in the game would 100% get me excited. Sadly they just cant hear you when their on their 50 foot high steed.
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I know it. I’ve created a thread with a conceptual redesign for all Paladins, and included a new direction for our Auras, Blessings, Seals, Judgements, even our Forbearance. I even created some holy / angelic style talents for each spec, as our class fantasy is heavily lacking in Rule of Cool.
I’ve seen other threads that have offered some other rad talents and new ways to go about using (or ditching) our Holy Power. There’s so much awesome stuff out there, which makes it so baffling to see that our devs aren’t even bothering with suggestions, when so many of us are dissatisfied. I don’t know of any other class that feels the same way we do right now with our upcoming Trees.
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Did I just see that they changed our cleanse to only cleanse magic debuffs?
I heard you wanted fast Holy Lights in your Infusion of Light procs as “ranged paladins”
well you’re not getting any but we’ll give you Divine Favor. Aren’t you happy now?
IoL will continue to be ignored by melee paladins as always if nothing changes.
I honestly hate what they’ve done to paladins, I hate this melee thingy going on but to each his own. Not going to bash the ones who enjoy it. This is all Blizzard fault for bringing it to the table a couple of years ago.
Can we get like a 25second Cd on Divine Favor and like 30% healing instead? As of now it will be a huge overheal probably. Better yet eliminate Divine Favor and put it in IoL procs. win win
I’ll see how it plays out but I think it’s time to put my paladin to rest for now if things keep looking like this, we’ll see.
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On the PTR, Ret has the best designed rotation it’s had in a long time. Feels good. I just don’t know if I can stomach Divine Steed for another expansion.
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No it doesnt, its worse than we currently have right now.
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Any design with 50 layers of RNG is bad design.
The current design is terrible, and the new one is just as bad, or actually worse.
It might feel ok, or even “good” to play as a layman, but any design that pushes luck to be an equal or greater contributor to performance than skill is objectively poor design.
Not only that but they are doubling down on it. Touch of Light/Incandescence, SoC, Sanctification, current tier 4pc, FV, Seal of Wrath, Boundless Judgement, and Consecrated Blade ontop of what our spec already has. We are a literal slot machine.
That’s not even accounting for any of the actual problems we have for desirability, or the fact that we literally don’t benefit anyone with our auras.
Ret is the WORST designed spec in the entire game, regardless of how it feels to play.
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Counterpoint: It’s incredibly fun to play now and is still incredibly fun to play in DF.
" Ret is the WORST designed spec in the entire game, regardless of how it feels to play."
What an incredible, asinine statement. lol
Go play a different a class, then. You’ll be back.
I am sure is not the worst. But it is bad and saying it “feels” good shows that the person either doesnt really know the spec enough to recognize the amount of wrongs there are right now (which is fine), or he doesnt care enough.
If you ask me right now if feral is in a good spot I could say “yea feral feels good I like that dots are strong”. That sentiment is so shallow and meaningless that a feral main will come push back on me.
Finally, it is veeery easy to spot someone (specially here) who actually plays the spec and cares about it, because they know how things work right now, what we used to have, how the current or future design might affect us in pvp pve whatever. You may not like the way lumberjack OP worded things but we know he cares. So, Id rather listen to someone who truly cares.
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I mean, there’s layers to it.
It’s poorly designed because it has no mobility.
It’s poorly designed because it has no utility.
It’s poorly designed because it has everything on the GCD.
It’s poorly designed because nothing synergizes well.
How you play questing in DF =/= Endgame.
Hitting Target dummies on the PTR =/= Endgame.
But, it’s not unsalvageable. It could be a lot better, and honestly could be the best class to play.
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I’m sorry, over 30% dps swings due to RNG during burst (your only period of actual damage) is not good design, especially when that is looking to be increased further in DF.
Again, I didn’t say it couldn’t still be “fun”, which is entirely subjective, but it is objectively bad design to have that much potential outside of player control.
Why would I do that? I’ve been playing this class for over 15 years. I just won’t play DF, easy enough /shrug.
I’m also not sure what your stance is, literally every Paladin spec has the majority of people who main the class complaining about it and you’re like “duh I like it, it’s fine”.
Do you even main Paladin? Probably not, so it’s probably not even a concern of yours.
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I see what you mean, but I don’t think those things are the meat of the spec. Even without them, with just Art of War alone, I think the rotation in DF is quite solid. I don’t mind added RNG as long as the entire spec isn’t based around it.
I’m just so sick of Divine Steed, and that’s the reason I probably won’t main Paladin in DF.
Wouldn’t it be more prudent to conclude that there might be people playing the spec at a level where there are issues with the spec?
It seems so odd to me that people frequently come in and make brazen claims about a spec they don’t appear to be playing at any level approaching expert.
To be clear, it is absolutely fine to just be a world quester, normal raider, or low key runner, but one would hope that would be in the forefront of your mind before you make statements about the state of a spec.
I hope anyone and everyone playing ret casually continues to have fun, but please don’t block the path when you hear people complaining; amidst the more hyperbolic statements there are some valid concerns being voiced.
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It’s also pretty ridiculous to say such things in general, to someone wanting the spec that they play to be better.
It’s like Player B is complaining about Player A, both work for the same company as software engineers, Player A wants better pay for software engineers… Player B says to Player A to stop complaining because the pay is enough.
Player B should shut up… if Player A pulls it off, both of them get better pay, in this case a better spec to play.
So it’s pretty absurd to cut off your chances at better p(l)ay like that.
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Certainly they aren’t the meat of the spec, but unless you play at an extremely casual level that degree of RNG influence on performance is extremely detrimental.
We are already talking a spec that notoriously only does damage during short burst windows, so most of the time what you are doing doesn’t feel like it matters.
So then adding absurd layers of RNG ontop of that makes it feel even less like what you are doing during those periods actually matter, whilst also seriously impacting your performance during those short burst windows.
Yeah, just the fact that they refuse to address issues that everyone has, whilst ignoring the community entirely whilst everyone else gets feedback is what does it for me.
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I truly want to understand why they do this to us. Wouldn’t you want a burst spec to have generally controllable and consistent output? Proccy output makes more sense for specs that do medium damage all the time, but maybe I’m missing something. What we have just seems like the most illogical design choice. This was my gripe with the one min build (apart from clunk factor). I feel like people forget that if you didn’t get a good RC proc your ES was pretty anemic.
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The 1% of the time when you get 1 Judgment… god that still hurts. So much.
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Urgh, tell me about it.
Doing two consecutive ST pulls and having a 25k opener on one and 44k on the other feels good.
The amount of damage the RNG causes is just ridiculous considering a lot of it is tied into our HP generation (AoW, 4pc, Ringing Clarity, FV etc) due to how much damage is loaded into both our cooldowns and our finishers.
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