(BETA) Dragonflight Priest Talent Tree Feedback Thread

[Alphôn-bleeding-hollow]

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

We are Priests first. We must define what being a Priest would mean. Then specs come after.

We are not a cultist / occultist.

Spec identity still matters though. Sure, we should identify a base class tree that fits all specs, but a spec should still separately identify someone. I believe the spec is what ultimately defines someone, not the class. The class just lays out the foundation, and at a certain level you eventually branch off into a spec.

Here’s how I look it at, class trees are just a way to differentiate yourself from your spec. It gives you a variety of options to choose from that doesn’t necessarily have to fit in with what your spec does or focuses around. I mean, a Shadow Priest getting Holy Word: Life? A Holy Priest getting Shadow Word: Death? Maybe you want to fit more in line with your spec though, so you choose talents that would fit in with it or you just choose whatever is best.

And with what Capslock said earlier in regards to this comment:

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

And how’s that working out over the last 3 expansions?

Theming isn’t the problem why Shadow Priest was bad for x,y, or z.

It’s design and mechanics. Blizzard had an idea for Shadow Priests, had a theme for it, and you could argue the theme guided it, but there’s so many ways they could’ve gone about designing Shadow Priests around a void theme. As said, they couldve kept it the exact same in previous expansions but just with a void theme if they wanted to.

Regardless though, one thing you can’t argue is a theme of Shadow Priests has been attacking a targets mind in some way. Starting with Mind Blast, Mind Control, Mindgames, etc.

Personally, I liked the way they explored corruption/sanity in Battle for Azeroth 8.3. I liked that you had these spells that would hit you in Horrific Visions that would corrupt you further and cause you to lose your mind that would ultimately be the end of you. I’m seriously surprised Blizzard didnt go that direction for Shadow Priests instead of what we have today which is surrendering their own sanity into the void and somehow gaining a bunch of power from it.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

I have and been doing just that.

The core issue that Shadow has was BASED around a theme as I have stated as much with this statement…

Where with Shadow, they made a HARD attempt to change shadows theme to this Void stuff just because they wanted to… NOT to solve a problem. Because they didn’t really solve any problem, they just introduced new ones.

The changes they made did nothing to help Shadow. It just made it super weak and non function in most areas of the game and only 1 type of content did it do better… but it did better to the extreme.

So it just caused a bunch of problems for the sake of “Theme” rather then focus on mechanics.

So drop the theme and focus on mechanics… that is what I have been saying. But bridging both mechanics and theme is a good starting point when we want to see a Priest as a whole and determine what a Priest should be able to do and what role it plays in the context of WoW.

Do that will help “focus” what type of mechanics and interactions would be best suited to the class and specs of a Priest.

[Capslockfury-area-52]

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

Tell me, how can you not agree with me when you are starting out at 0 insanity and start attacking things… that by the time they are dead or nearly dead, only THEN did you get FORCED to enter Voidform and then see your insanity drain to ZERO before you get to another mob or next dungeon pull. How can you POSSIBLY think that was “Fun”.

Well I normally continued pulling. So It was pretty fun for me. Again, Spriest has never been good in dungeons. There’s never been a time where it was amazing. I’m not saying they did tons of damage in dungeon mob packs. They did straight up murder bosses and were popular in high keys for that, though.

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

You claim that I have some memory issues regarding Shadow as it was in WoD… I would argue that’s completely opposite. I haven’t played much of Shadow since WoD, so my memory is not obstructed with the degenerate nature Shadow became since Legion.

Well I never said this, I just said Spriest was terrible in dungeons in WoD. It was. There was no way you were keeping up with players on other popular specs unless you just outskilled them by quite a bit. With M+ being a main branch of WoW’s gameplay now, there’s no way it’d fly today.

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

And how do you get this “theme” you are trying to push within the context and content of WoW while avoiding any type of “ramping”.

I guess I need to ask - have you played Shadowlands shadow?

Because it doesn’t have insane ramp time or anything. Dungeon damage is better than it’s ever been on shadow, it’s just boring because it’s loaded into SN. I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about here.

Shadowlands Spriest was actually a very good redesign - it just felt unfinished. The base of the spec is there. In fact you can go look up posts from people very critical of shadow now and find them saying very positive things about it in the Slands beta. Basically Shadowlands felt like a strong foundation for once. They just never built on it. So Spriests are sitting on this foundation asking Blizzard to build the house. And DF rolls around - the perfect time to build on the foundation they set down and all the Spriests excitedly look to find… they didn’t build on the foundation. They just let you claim more land. So the foundation got bigger, but it’s entirely redundant. Spriests are using the same things, only now you can use MORE of the same things. Except those things will cap your insanity instantly so you really can’t use those things a lot of the time. Also your filler does more damage.

Idols at least, are a good step. But they put them so far away to intentionally stop you from taking more than one, which… is bad.

But really, with a larger rework to shadow’s AoE, and tweaks to their Single target to make it feel less like “500 buttons that you press off CD and that’s the spec” along with better cooldown alignment, and the spec would play perfectly fine.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

@Alphôn-bleeding-hollow

It’s design and mechanics. Blizzard had an idea for Shadow Priests, had a theme for it, and you could argue the theme guided it, but there’s so many ways they could’ve gone about designing Shadow Priests around a void theme

My approach to all this comes from the position of “Probabilities” not “Possibilities”.

Is it “possible” to implement something that you want? Sure. But how likely is it given these facts…

• Shadowlands Priest Class WoW Dev quit…
• New Priest Class Dev just left to do other things
• Dragonflight announced to released THIS year… less then 6 months away
• Still awaiting on Demon Hunters Talents to be released
• Priest talents… specifically Shadows are either currently broken and do not work or just has a horrible design / approach / implementation

That does not look good to then introduce an entirely new “conceptual” idea to change the Priest or “Shadow” into while also maintaining a decent Class tree.

That is a LOT of work that needs to be ironed out with very little time. I don’t know about you, but I would like to finally enjoy playing my priest again. I rather not wait for yet another expansion because we ran out of time walking down this road of “maybe” and “What if” as we have traversed this road before between WoD and Legion and here we still are with no problems solved and just more and more growing.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

@Capslockfury-area-52

Well I normally continued pulling.

In the current context of M+ and the go go go mentality this works if everyone is prepared and doing constant pulls sure.

But this does not work while questing, doing old content, doing lower end content.
Basically anything that was not the hardest type of content it felt extremely lackluster. It should feel fun to play in its entirely… not based on the content its in.

@Capslockfury-area-52

With M+ being a main branch of WoW’s gameplay now, there’s no way it’d fly today.

Based on what? We had good cleave damage from dots and we had good Focus damage on single targets… not the best but it was good enough. Only AOE as I mentioned was an issue. But you could get around this fact using multiple forms of damage. We just didn’t have a single button to press to get the job done. It took pre planning… Building up procs to burst targets down, sniping low HP targets with SW:D to proc Twists of Fate, using Cascade + Mind Sear to finish things off.

I fail to see how just adjust numbers and introducing a constant resource spending for decent AOE WONT fix the problem. If we had the WoD style of play and maybe add in Void Eruption by itself and perhaps Dark Archangel for burst moments that doesn’t change they way you play and shift the scale of power so dramatically which then causes you to fall off massively without the power boost… I would be hard pressed to see how that version would NOT be able to succeed in todays content.

@Capslockfury-area-52

I guess I need to ask - have you played Shadowlands shadow?

Not since Beta & Pre-patch.

I was here during SL beta and it was NOT agreed that it was a “Good” fix going into SL. It was merely “acceptable” given time constraints and other factors. We still saw problems and made it known. We just ran out of time to address them.

@Capslockfury-area-52

Because it doesn’t have insane ramp time or anything.

After your Void Eruption / Voidform has ended… you miss a massive part of your gameplay. You loose the ability to extend DOTS and spawn Shadow Apparitions outside of Voidform. So outside of Voidform, you feel a lot less powerful in not just numbers but in gameplay.

So yes, the ramp issue exists… its just not as much of an issue as it was prior.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Dispassion-stormrage

Talk about functional changes to the spec and ongoing problems, themes can be revisited after the function of the spec is laid out.

I kinda feel like Shadowlands showed us that’s not true. Themes very often drive mechanics, and when you don’t have a clear idea what a spec is / what it means to be that spec you end making buttons that are just “Hit on cooldown” or “Make bar go up”.

Which is pretty much what shadow is now.

We collectively sacced thematic design in Shadowlands because we knew it was at best a quick fix for the absolute car crash that was coming. Now we’re in yet another expansion Alpha and Blizzard are yet to even attempt to answer the question “What does a Shadow Priest do?”

[Melkeor-tichondrius]

Remove void form, I’m not a void priest…
Put passives back on shadow form…

Hey, look, yet another revision of Hunter talents and feedback…

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

Throes of Pain redesign idea…

• Throes of Pain
  Mind Sear applies Shadow Word: Pain to every target hit upon its completion of its channel. Each target afflicted with Shadow Word: Pain deals 5% less damage.

New / Modified talents in a more readable format…

• Life and Sanity
  Holy Word: Life may now be used on targets at or below 35% health without incurring a feedback damage penalty.
  If your Holy Word: Life fails in healing the target at or below 35% health, the damage received is reduced by 50%.

• Death and Madness
  If your Shadow Word: Death fails to kill the target at or below 20% health, your Shadow Word: Deaths cooldown is instantly reset.
  Casting Shadow Word: Death now also does damage to you equivalent to the damage it would do to an enemy above 50% health.

• Prayer of Healing
  40 yd range
  2 sec cast
  A powerful prayer that heals the target and the 4 nearest allies within 40 yards.

Translucent Image
For the first 5 sec of Fade, you take 10% reduced damage.

(Choice) Switch Talent

Phantasm
Activating Fade removes all movement impairing effects and prevents your movement speed from being reduced for 5 sec.

• Masochism
  When you take a damaging attack equal to or greater than 10% of your total health or damage yourself with your Shadow Word: Death, you instantly gain 10% of your total mana.
  This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 sec.

• Mind Sear
  Corrosive shadow energy radiates from the target, dealing [(16.38% of Spell power) * 6] Shadow damage over 4.5 sec to all enemies within 10 yards of the target.

• Thought Harvester
  Shadow Word: Pain has a 20% chance to increase the damage of your next Mind Sear within 20 sec by 150%.

• Searing Pain
  Mind Sear applies Shadow Word: Pain to every target hit upon its completion of its channel. Each target afflicted with Shadow Word: Pain deals 5% less damage.

• Mindful Words
  Within 5 seconds after casting Mind Blast, your next Word spell effect is increased by 20%.
  This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 sec.

• Cleric’s Armaments
  While your Power Word: Shield is active on you, Smite & Mind Blast deals 10% additional damage.

• Smitten
  Smite Critical strikes shields a random party of raid member for 50% of the damage done.
  Prioritizes targets with the lowest health.

• Archangel
  Instantly restores 5% of your total mana and increases your healing done by 15%.
  Lasts for 18sec. 60 sec cooldown.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Dark Archangel
  Increase haste by 5% and increases your Shadow damage done by 20%.
  Lasts for 18sec. 90 sec cooldown.

• Shadowfiend
  Instant 3 min cooldown
  Summons a shadowy fiend to attack the target for 15 sec.
  Each attack applies a stack of Shadow Vulnerability (3% Magic), causing each consecutive attack to hit 3% harder.
  Shadow Vulnerability also increases your Shadow damage done to the target.
  Shadow Vulnerability last 5 sec

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Mindbender
  Instant 1 min cooldown
  Summons a Mindbender to attack the target for 15 sec.
  Shadow
  Generates 5 Insanity each time the Mindbender attacks.
  Discipline, Holy
  Summons a Mindbender to attack the target for 12 sec. You regenerate 1% of maximum mana each time the Mindbender attacks.

• Vault of Heavens (Choice) Switch talent with Leap of Faith
  Causes you to leap to your target.

• Power Infusion
  Infuses the target and yourself with power for 20 sec, increasing haste by 25%.

• Spectral Guise
  Instant 30 sec cooldown
  Your shadow blurs into the darkness, leaving your true form behind. As a shadow you are stealthed, but remain in combat. Lasts 6 sec or until your true form is hit by 3 direct attacks.

• Crystalline Reflection
  Power Word: Shield instantly heals the target and reflects 20/40% of damage absorbed.

• Reconstituted Power
  The cooldown of Power infusion is reduced by 50% at 80% effectiveness.
  Your Mind Blast critical hits extend the duration of Power Infusion by 1 sec.

• Void Tendrils
  Instant 30 sec cooldown
  Summons Shadowy tendrils out of the ground, rooting up to 5 enemy targets within 8 yards for 20 sec or until the tendril is killed.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Petrified
  Targets of your Psychic Scream now tremble in place instead of fleeing in fear.

• Light of the Naaru
  Instant 3 min cooldown
  Summon a Naaru bathed in light, Duplicating your single target healing spells on another target with missing health for 15 sec.
  Duplicated healing prioritizes targets with the lowest health.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Dark of the Naaru
  Instant 3 min cooldown
  Summon a Dark Narru consumed by shadows, Duplicating your single target shadow damaging spells on another target for 15 sec.
  Duplicated shadow damaging spells prioritizes targets with the highest health.

• Inner Focus
  Instant 3 min cooldown
  When activated, reduces the Mana cost of your spells by 100% for the next 10 seconds and increases its critical effect chance by 25% if it is capable of a critical effect.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Power Word: Twilight
  Your Power Word: Shield has a chance to becomes infused with Twilight, Reducing damage taken by 15% and 30% of all damage and healing you do adds to the absorb amount while it holds.
  This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 sec.

• Cascade
  40 yard range
  1.5 sec cast 25 sec cooldown
  Launch a Holy bolt that grows in power with distance, healing an ally, and then bouncing to additional allies 4 times. Each time it bounces, it splits into 2 bolts.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Dark Cascade
  40 yard range
  Instant 25 sec cooldown
  Launch a Shadowy bolt that grows in power with distance, damaging an enemy, and then bouncing to additional enemies 4 times. Each time it bounces, it splits into 2 bolts.

• Void Shift
  40 yd range
  Instant 5 min cooldown
  You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount.

(Choice) Switch Talent

• Exsanguinate
  20 yd range
  Instant 3 min cooldown
  You do shadow damage that is proportional to your current missing health. You heal for 50% of the damage done. The damage done cannot exceed your current missing health percentage.

• Mindgames & Shadowflame Prism are now a (Choice) Switch Talent

• 1.3.7:custom:0:Priest class (Shadow) - Aneurysm-06:Aneurysm's Mock up on the Priest Class Tree:TTM Note__cl____n__Due to tree changes loadout has been revalidated and one or more skillset was invalidated!__n____n__:51:1;0:Prayer of Mending:Places a ward on an ally that heals them for (61% of Spell power) the next time they take damage__cm__ and then jumps to another ally within 20 yds. Jumps up to 5 times and lasts 30 sec after each jump.:0:3:7:1:0:0:44:52,3:prayerOfMending.png,default.png;1:Shadow Word__cl__ Death:A word of dark binding that inflicts (85% of Spell power) Shadow damage to the target. If the target is not killed by Shadow Word__cl__ Death__cm__ the caster takes damage equal to the damage inflicted upon the target.__n____n__[Damage increased by 250% to targets below 50% health.][Damage increased by 150% to targets below 20% health.]__n____n__Atonement__n__Does not trigger Atonement:0:1:13:1:0:1::4,5,6:shadowWordDeath.png,default.png;2:Renew:Fill the target with faith in the light__cm__ healing for (160% of Spell power) over 15 sec.:0:7:3:1:0:0:52:36,8:renew.png,default.png;3:Focused Mending:Prayer of Mending does 45% increased healing to the initial target.:1:5:7:1:0:0:0:13:focusedMending.png,default.png;4:Angelic Feather,Body and Soul:Places a feather at the target location__cm__ granting the first ally to walk through it 40% increased movement speed for 5 sec. Only 3 feathers can be placed at one time.,Power Word__cl__ Shield and Leap of Faith increase your target's movement speed by 40% for 3 sec.:2:3:11:1:0:0:44,1:10,9,38:angelicFeather.png,bodyAndSoul.png;5:Death and Madness:If your Shadow Word__cl__ Death fails to kill the target at or below 20% health__cm__ your Shadow Word__cl__ Deaths cooldown is instantly reset. __n____n__Casting Shadow Word__cl__ Death now also does damage to you equivalent to the damage it would do to an enemy above 50% health.:1:3:13:1:0:0:1:11:shadowWordDeath.png,default.png;6:Shadow Mend:Wraps an ally in shadows which heal for (320% of Spell power)__cm__ but at a price.__n____n__The ally will take [(320% of Spell power) / 20] damage every 1 sec__cm__ until they have taken [(320% of Spell power) / 2] total damage from all sources__cm__ or leave combat.:0:3:15:1:0:0:1:68:shadowMend.png,default.png;8:Benediction:Your Prayer of Mending has a 25% chance to leave a Renew on each target it heals.:1:9:5:1:8:0:2,13:36:benediction.png,default.png;9:Purify Disease:Removes all Disease effects from a friendly target.:0:5:9:1:0:0:4:18,33:purifyDisease.png,default.png;10:Dispel Magic:Dispels Magic on the enemy target__cm__ removing 1 beneficial Magic effect.:0:5:13:1:0:0:4:18,23:dispelMagic.png,default.png;11:Masochism:When you take a damaging attack equal to or greater than 10% of your total health or damage yourself with your Shadow Word__cl__ Death__cm__ you instantly gain 10% of your total mana.__n____n__This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 sec.:1:5:15:1:0:0:5::masochism.png,default.png;12:Mind Restrain:Mind Blast prevents the next [(Spell power * 300 / 100) * (1 + Versatility)] damage dealt by the enemy.,Mind Blast prevents the next [(Spell power * 450 / 100) * (1 + Versatility)] damage dealt by the enemy.:1:17:17:2:20:0:53,43:55:mindRestrain.png,default.png;13:Say Your Prayers:Prayer of Mending has a 6% chance to not consume a charge when it jumps to a new target.:1:7:5:1:0:0:3:8:sayYourPrayers.png,default.png;15:Improved Smite:Smite deals 25% increased damage.,Smite deals 50% increased damage.:1:9:9:2:8:0:18:48,32,25:improvedSmite.png,default.png;16:Power Infusion:Infuses the target and yourself with power for 20 sec__cm__ increasing haste by 25%.:0:15:11:1:20:0:22,48,60:49,54,71:powerInfusion.png,default.png;17:Improved Mind Blast:Mind Blast's cooldown reduced by 3 sec.,Mind Blast's cooldown reduced by 7.5 sec.:1:9:13:2:8:0:18:48,51:improvedMindBlast.png,default.png;18:Twist of Fate:After healing or damaging a target below 35% health__cm__ you deal 20% increased healing and damage for 10 sec.:1:7:11:1:0:0:10,9:48,15,17:twistOfFate.png,default.png;21:Leap of Faith,Vault of Heavens:Pulls the spirit of a party or raid member__cm__ instantly moving them directly in front of you.,Causes you to leap to your target.:2:15:7:1:20:0:22:49,45:leapOfFaith.png,VaultofHeavens.png;22:Mass Dispel:Dispels magic in a 15 yard radius__cm__ removing all harmful Magic from 5 friendly targets and 1 beneficial Magic effects from 5 enemy targets. __n____n__Mass Dispel__n__Potent enough to remove Magic that is normally undispellable:0:13:9:1:8:0:48:21,16:massDispel.png,default.png;23:Mind Control:Controls a mind up to 1 level above yours for 30 sec while still controlling your own mind. Does not work versus Demonic__cm__ Mechanical__cm__ or Undead beings or players. This spell shares diminishing returns with other disorienting effects.:0:7:15:1:0:0:10:29,65:mindControl.png,default.png;24:Shadowfiend,Mindbender:Instant 3 min cooldown__n____n__Summons a shadowy fiend to attack the target for 15 sec.__n____n__Each attack applies a stack of Shadow Vulnerability (3% Magic)__cm__ causing each consecutive attack to hit 3% harder.__n__Shadow Vulnerability also increases your Shadow damage done to the target.__n____n__Shadow Vulnerability last 5 sec,Instant 1 min cooldown__n____n__Summons a Mindbender to attack the target for 15 sec.__n____n__Shadow__n__Generates 5 Insanity each time the Mindbender attacks.__n____n__Discipline__cm__  Holy__n__Summons a Mindbender to attack the target for 12 sec. You regenerate 1% of maximum mana each time the Mindbender attacks.:2:11:19:1:8:0:65,30:43,35:shadowfiend.png,mindbender.png;25:Cleric's Armaments:While your Power Word__cl__ Shield is active on you__cm__ Smite & Mind Blast deals 10% additional damage.:1:11:7:1:8:0:15,33:37:clericsArmaments.png,default.png;29:Dominant Mind:You may also control your own character while Mind Control is active__cm__ but Mind Control has a 2 min cooldown__cm__ and it may not be used against players.:1:11:15:1:8:0:23:35:dominantMind.png,default.png;30:Searing Pain:Mind Sear applies Shadow Word__cl__ Pain to every target hit upon its completion of its channel. Each target afflicted with Shadow Word__cl__ Pain deals 5% less damage.:1:7:19:1:0:0:68:24:ShadowwordPain.png,default.png;32:Smitten:Smite Critical strikes shields a random party of raid member for 50% of the damage done.__n____n__Prioritizes targets with the lowest health. :1:11:9:1:8:0:15::toolsOfTheCloth.png,default.png;33:Shackle Undead:Shackles the target undead enemy for 50 sec__cm__ preventing all actions and movement. Damage will cancel the effect. Limit 1.:0:7:7:1:0:0:9:25:shackleUndead.png,default.png;35:Puppet Master:Shadowfiend and Dominant Mind increase your Mastery by 75 while active.,Shadowfiend and Dominant Mind increase your Mastery by 150 while active.:1:13:17:2:8:0:29,24::puppetMaster.png,default.png;36:Blessing of Renewal:Renew heals for an additional 5% and its mana cost is reduced by 10%.:1:11:3:1:8:0:2,8:40:blessingOfRenewal.png,default.png;37:Charitable Soul:Casting Power Word__cl__ Shield on an ally also shields you for 10% of the amount for 10 sec.:1:13:5:1:8:0:25:40:charitableSoul.png,default.png;38:Translucent Image,Phantasm:For the first 5 sec of Fade__cm__ you take 10% reduced damage.,Activating Fade removes all movement impairing effects and prevents your movement speed from being reduced for 5 sec.:2:5:11:1:0:0:4::translucentImage.png,Fade.png;40:Unwavering Will:While above 75% health__cm__ the cast times of your Flash Heal__cm__ Heal__cm__ Prayer of Healing__cm__ and Smite are reduced by 10%.,While above 75% health__cm__ the cast times of your Flash Heal__cm__ Heal__cm__ Prayer of Healing__cm__ and Smite are reduced by 20%.:1:15:3:2:20:0:37,36:45,67:unwaveringWill.png,default.png;43:Rabid Shadows:Your __n____n__Mindbender__n__Mindbender__n____n__Shadowfiend's attack speed is increased by 5%.,Your __n____n__Mindbender__n__Mindbender__n____n__Shadowfiend's attack speed is increased by 10%.:1:15:19:2:20:0:24:63,12:rabidShadows.png,default.png;44:Holy Word__cl__ Life:A word of holy power that heals the target for (150% of Spell power). If the target is not below 20% health__cm__ the caster takes damage equal to the amount healed. Healing is increased by 150% to targets below 20% health.:0:1:9:1:0:0::4,0,70:holyWordLife.png,default.png;45:Crystalline Reflection:Power Word__cl__ Shield instantly heals the target for (42% of Spell power) and reflects 20% of damage absorbed.,Power Word__cl__ Shield instantly heals the target for (84% of Spell power) and reflects 40% of damage absorbed.:1:17:5:2:20:0:21,40:66:crystallineReflection.png,default.png;48:Archangel,Dark Archangel:Instantly restores 5% of your total mana and increases your healing done by 15%.__n____n__Lasts for 18sec. 60 sec cooldown.,Increase haste by 5% and increases your Shadow damage done by 20%.__n____n__Lasts for 18sec. 90 sec cooldown.:2:11:11:1:8:0:18,15,17:22,60,16:Archangel.png,DarkArchangel.png;49:Mind Bomb,Psychic Voice:Inflicts the target with a Mind Bomb.__n____n__After 2 sec or if the target dies__cm__ it unleashes a psychic explosion__cm__ disorienting all enemies within 8 yds of the target for 6 sec.,Reduces the cooldown of Psychic Scream by 30 sec.:2:17:9:1:20:0:21,16:57:mindBomb.png,psychicVoice.png;51:Paralysis:When you critically hit with your Mind Blast__cm__ you cause the target to be unable to move for 4 sec.:1:11:13:1:8:0:17::Paralysis.png,default.png;52:Prayer of Healing:40 yd range__n__2 sec cast__n____n__A powerful prayer that heals the target and the 4 nearest allies within 40 yards.:0:5:5:1:0:0:0:2:PrayerofHealing.png,default.png;53:Spectral Guise:Instant 30 sec cooldown__n____n__Your shadow blurs into the darkness__cm__ leaving your true form behind. As a shadow you are stealthed__cm__ but remain in combat. Lasts 6 sec or until your true form is hit by 3 direct attacks.:0:15:15:1:20:0:60:12,54:SpectralGuise.png,default.png;54:Void Tendrils,Petrified:Instant 30 sec cooldown__n____n__Summons Shadowy tendrils out of the ground__cm__ rooting up to 5 enemy targets within 8 yards for 20 sec or until the tendril is killed.,Targets of your Psychic Scream now tremble in place instead of fleeing in fear.:2:17:13:1:20:0:53,16:57:VoidTendrils.png,PsychicScream.png;55:Void Shift,Exsanguinate:40 yd range__n__Instant 5 min cooldown__n____n__You and the currently targeted party or raid member swap health percentages. Increases the lower health percentage of the two to 25% if below that amount.,20 yd range__n__Instant 3 min cooldown__n____n__You do shadow damage that is proportional to your current missing health. You heal for 50% of the damage done. The damage done cannot exceed your current missing health percentage.:2:19:17:1:20:0:12::VoidShift.png,Exsanguinate.png;57:Cascade,Dark Cascade:40 yard range__n__1.5 sec cast 25 sec cooldown__n____n__Launch a Holy bolt that grows in power with distance__cm__ healing an ally__cm__ and then bouncing to additional allies 4 times. Each time it bounces__cm__ it splits into 2 bolts.,40 yard range__n__Instant 25 sec cooldown__n____n__Launch a Shadowy bolt that grows in power with distance__cm__ damaging an enemy__cm__ and then bouncing to additional enemies 4 times. Each time it bounces__cm__ it splits into 2 bolts.:2:19:11:1:20:0:49,54::PriestCascade.png,CascadeShadow.png;60:Silence:30 yd range__n__Instant 45 sec cooldown__n____n__Silences the target__cm__ preventing them from casting spells for 4 sec. Against non-players__cm__ also interrupts spellcasting and prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4 sec.:0:13:13:1:8:0:48:16,53:silence.png,default.png;63:Mindgames,Shadowflame Prism:Assault an enemy's mind__cm__ dealing [(300% of Spell power) * 100 / 100] Shadow damage and briefly reversing their perception of reality.__n____n__Shadow__n__For 5 sec__cm__ the next [(Spell power * 450 / 100) * (1 + Versatility) * 100 / 100] damage they deal will heal their target__cm__ and the next [(Spell power * 450 / 100) * (1 + Versatility) * 100 / 100] healing they deal will damage their target.__n____n__Reversed damage and healing generate up to 20 Insanity.__n____n__Discipline__cm__  Holy__n__For 5 sec__cm__ the next [(Spell power * 450 / 100) * (1 + Versatility) * 100 / 100] damage they deal will heal their target__cm__ and the next [(Spell power * 450 / 100) * (1 + Versatility) * 100 / 100] healing they deal will damage their target.__n____n__Reversed damage and healing restore up to 4% mana.,Mind Blast and Shadow Word__cl__ Death cause your Shadowfiend to teleport behind your target__cm__ slashing up to 5 nearby enemies for __n____n__Mindbender__n__[.442 * (190% of Spell power)]__n____n__[.408 * (190% of Spell power)] Shadowflame damage. Each time a rift is triggered__cm__ the duration of Shadowfiend is increased by 1.0 sec.:2:19:19:1:20:0:43::mindgames.png,shadowflamePrism.png;65:Mindful Words:Within 5 seconds after casting Mind Blast__cm__ your next Word spell effect is increased by 20%.__n____n__This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 sec.:1:9:17:1:8:0:23:24:Mindblast.png,default.png;66:Inner Focus,Power Word__cl__ Twilight:Instant 3 min cooldown__n____n__When activated__cm__ reduces the Mana cost of your spells by 100% for the next 10 seconds and increases its critical effect chance by 25% if it is capable of a critical effect.,Your Power Word__cl__ Shield has a chance to becomes infused with Twilight__cm__ Reducing damage taken by 15% and 30% of all damage and healing you do adds to the absorb amount while it holds.__n____n__This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 sec.:2:19:5:1:20:0:45::InnerFocus.png,TwilightShield.png;67:Light of the Naaru,Dark of the Naaru:Instant 3 min cooldown__n____n__Summon a Naaru bathed in light__cm__ Duplicating your single target healing spells on another target with missing health for 15 sec.__n__Duplicated healing prioritizes targets with the lowest health.,Instant 3 min cooldown__n____n__Summon a Dark Narru consumed by shadows__cm__ Duplicating your single target shadow damaging spells on another target for 15 sec.__n__Duplicated shadow damaging spells prioritizes targets with the highest health.:2:19:3:1:20:0:40::Naaru.png,Darknaaru.png;68:Mind Sear:Corrosive shadow energy radiates from the target__cm__ dealing [(16.38% of Spell power) * 6] Shadow damage over 4.5 sec to all enemies within 10 yards of the target.:0:5:17:1:0:0:6:69,30:mindSear.png,default.png;69:Thought Harvester:Shadow Word__cl__ Pain has a 20% chance to increase the damage of your next Mind Sear within 20 sec by 150%.:1:7:17:1:0:0:68::ThoughtSteal.png,default.png;70:Life and Sanity:Holy Word__cl__ Life may now be used on targets at or below 35% health without incurring a feedback damage penalty.__n__If your Holy Word__cl__ Life fails in healing the target at or below 35% health__cm__ the damage received is reduced by 50%.:1:3:9:1:0:0:44::holyWordLife.png,default.png;71:Reconstituted Power:The cooldown of Power infusion is reduced by 50% at 80% effectiveness.__n__Your Mind Blast critical hits extend the duration of Power Infusion by 1 sec.:1:17:11:1:20:0:16::ReconstitutedPower.png,default.png;New skillset,70,1:0:1:0:0:1:1:1:0:0:1:1:0:0:0:1:2:1:2:1:1:1:0:0:1:0:0:2:0:0:1:0:2:0:2:2:0:0:0:0:2:0:2:1:1:1:1:0:1:1:0:1;
  

Edit:

A couple of things to note…

• I would like to rename it to Searing Pain. Doing so will have a double entendre in having a portion of the name for both Mind Sear and Shadow Word: Pain and when something hurts like a burn, it hurts like a Burning or Searing Pain.

• Having the ability for every priest, but especially Shadow with having the capability to reduce damage from every enemy in PvP, Raiding and M+ would be a niche reason to bring a priest when you know a lot of damage during the duration of the run will be going out.

[Mystakai-zuluhed]

Keep up the good work aneurysm. I appreciate how active you are in fighting for the return to shadow form. I hope the dev takes a lot of inspiration from your ideas. I especially like the idea of separating voidform into its components. Shadow would feel a lot better if we had the three spells void bolt, void eruption, and dark archangel instead of the heavily weighted monstrosity that is void form.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

Thanks for the feedback and support.

In truth I don’t have that high of expectations. But in doing what I’m doing, I hope to provide a different perspective that most haven’t considered and hopefully get other interesting ideas flowing and together we can at least have something tangible to point to and say “look at this” for a quick at a glance outlook of what we would like to see as a whole and hopefully that would expedite the design process and it can become something truly grand and beloved.

At bare minimum however, I am doing this so we don’t get the excuse of “we had no idea what players wanted or how we can move forward” type of response.

I think providing a visual aid to express our collective ideas will be extremely useful to illustrate our wants and desires.

Like that old expression…
A picture is worth a thousand words.

Also imo, so many junk talents in the class and shadow trees just annoy me lol.
Like 3 talents for Shadow Mend alone is just like what…? Why lol. So boring.

As you can see with my class tree, I think it is loaded with a lot more interesting options that are both useful and easily traversable for all 3 specs.

[Thelarias-zuljin]

@Aneurysm-nerzhul

I am doing this so we don’t get the excuse of “we had no idea what players wanted or how we can move forward” type of response.

Well, one person isn’t ‘players’ though. I’m not specifically interrested by most of your stuff… And when someone try to engage with you to give feedback, you’re not interrested… I’m not against a lot of the things you bring, but it doesn’t feel like you’ve played priest recently. Your thoughts on keeping void but separated could work but you put almost no thought on it, to the point it would become a dead section of the tree.

I’d rather you don’t identify as the ‘players’ voice. From what I’ve seen, a lot of posters just don’t interract with your posts anymore because it’s not worth the effort, because you don’t listen to people who do not agree with you…

[Nyanto-azralon]

As someone who just started to shadow priest this expansion, I do love how this iteration of shadow feel.

Void and Shadow are just like Holy and Light, the theme is pretty great. SPriest dwells into void as just as HPally, HPriest and Disc dwells into Light (Holy Nova, Light’s Wrath/Shadow Word, Void Bolt). What it lacks is a clear direction: should shadow become insane by tapping into insanity of the void, make others go insane, conjure fiends, be vampiric or else?

Mechanichally what we lack in gameplay is:

• An AoE spender and dot spreader, just like they made Affliction one (Vile Taint).
• More sinergy for our dots as well, since nothing but mastery procs of SW:P.
• Some tweaks so nothing become ridiculous to balance as apparitions.

Thematically I sense we are in a pretty good spot except for vampiric spells, that seems to me as more Blood DK than shadow magic, and I read somewhere else that vampiric spells for shadow was never explained.

I believe what lacks a little bit of cohesion is Holy using shadow magic and Shadow using holy magic, in any extent. There should be a base passive that transforms shadow spells into holy for Holy, like Shadow Word: Pain becomes Holy Word: Pain just as Flash Heal becomes Shadowmend. This feels compelling for me for this class because Disc is the connection of holy and shadow, and that is the spec to use both schools and hence, Power Words should be usable by the three of them.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

I said I would love to see what others come up with.

If people don’t want to put forth the effort to get their point across, then that’s on them.

I don’t shut anyones ideas down, I just try to explain the problems and try to come up with solutions.

What I seem to always be met with is as your doing right now… saying I haven’t played in a bit etc. and then have my perspective discounted on that merit alone and not on my ideas as they are presented.

Basically I’m constantly being judged by who I am instead of my ideas.

Not all, but a vast majority.

But I can say this, why should I play a game that I don’t like at its core level when in fact I did like for over 10 years. That’s not a me thing, that’s a design thing.

I’m not the only one who sees the problems, but I am someone who is not going to just be silent and let the class and spec rot even further if I can help it, so I am doing something about it.

If people want to discuss ideas with me on merit be it mine or their own then I have and will still continue to do so based on the idea itself.

And if they don’t want to do that, then do what I’m doing and instead of critiquing my character and not engaging with ideas as they are presented… make your own suggestions and build your own tree.

If not then either you don’t got much to add or don’t care enough so why should I let that stop me?

[Stryges-caelestrasz]

In all honesty, I didn’t need a definite answer where my shadow powers came from, and I think that was part of the appeal for me personally. As an UD shadowpriest (the best kind of shadowpriest) I could see my powers as a pervasion of traditional priest powers. As the history of Draenor was fleshed out, we learned that the Orc Shadowpriests got there power from a Dark Naru.

I just don’t like the insanity angle. Partly because I played from Vanilla and I did not like the mechanical changes of the gameplay loop in Legion at all, and this probably soured me on the lore “clarifications” . I sort of compare shadow with insanity and old gods to jedi with midichlorians.

With that said, I would give two flips about official lore if they provided me with a mechanically and visually different way that was viable (hell, I don’t even need to be competitive because I don’t play WoW that way anymore) so I could actually go back to my Raven priest aesthetic I loved so much from Wrath (I have the toy on ALL THE TIME).

A good approach would be : 1) Keep the insanity/voidform option for those who like it, 2) add back the dark angelic/shadow orbs options for those who like it. Justification: Throughout Legion/BFA the old god influence was super strong and shadowpriests took advantage of this. Throughout SL it faded a bit. Now in DF there is enough there to use the void approach, but some are going back to more traditional manifestations of their power.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

Well said.

I especially enjoyed this bit lol.

@Stryges-caelestrasz

I sort of compare shadow with insanity and old gods to jedi with midichlorians.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

To make Holy Word Life more appealing…

Base version…

• Holy Word Life
  A word of holy power that heals the target for (150% of Spell power). If the target is not below 20% health, the caster takes damage equal to the amount healed. Healing is increased by 150% to targets below 20% health.

Enhanced version…

• Life and Sanity
  If your Holy Word: Life succeeds in healing the target at or below 20% health, the cooldown is reduced by 50%.
  If your Holy Word: Life fails in healing the target at or below 20% health, the damage received is reduced by 50%.

[Caithyra-stormrage]

The whole “below 20%” hp by thing is so hard to target. People rarely if ever are that low to begin with.

[Zyldamyr-hyjal]

Seems like people’s only defense to changing disc to bubble disc is that it’s meta for raiding.

Guess what? There’s more content than just raiding and disc sucks at all of it.

[Aneurysm-nerzhul]

What about this version?

• Life and Sanity
  Holy Word: Life may now be used on targets at or below 35% health without incurring a feedback damage penalty.
  If your Holy Word: Life fails in healing the target at or below 35% health, the damage received is reduced by 50%.

Basically its like Massacre from the Warrior Class tree.

[Nitefire-illidan]

@Zyldamyr-hyjal

Seems like people’s only defense to changing disc to bubble disc is that it’s meta for raiding.

Guess what? There’s more content than just raiding and disc sucks at all of it.

raid we should be decent it really depends on how they setup the raids .

SoFo was a nightmare and was built for druids/hpriests it seems.

we need heavy dmg to be burst healed by us. lets see how the tune the upcoming raid.

M+ yea we been sucking since '99. blizz has no clue it seems to solve it - or has anyone to solve it if recent rumors of the dev leaving are true.