These two point talents are fine even if they are just adding a cost to reach another ability. They are, in fact, quite powerful effects in addition to presenting an interesting choice.
If they made shadow mend instant cast, and do healing based primarily on how much dot damage went out over the preceding 15 seconds that could be interesting. Makes it dissimilar from flash heal, gives priest a solid defensive with shadow covenant, and something unique - rewards spreading purge the wicked.
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if its purpose only functions as a wall, then itâs a bad talent IMO.
Needs to lower cost and or rework a bit.
But w.e justt mah two cents on that. Class tree has this issue as well.
Iâm afraid that would make this incredibly powerful for shadow, considering the masochism talent attached to it. I mean I wouldnât say no to this, but I doubt blizz would say yes 
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Were yet to see what our tier set bonus is actually going to be on the first raid tier. Probably wonât for at least another 1-2 months.
The 2-piece bonus was basically equivalent to having Light of the Naaru (33% reduction retail) on-top of Holy Oration. Next expansion though itâs getting toned down a bit. With LOTN youâre looking at about a 7 cast reset on Serenity vs 5 on retail w/ 2-piece.
Our single target healing is going to be toned down next expansion, but itâs a lot of give-and-take. Cast more flash heals, but get +15% more crit. Slower Holy Word Serenity resets, but you can get up to +20% increased healing on it.
Iâm more concerned about mana consumption rates because Flash Concentration already runs hot on mana and were casting a lot more Flash Heals. I donât know if Shadowfiend is going to cover the gap of not having Fae Guardians though.
Everyone ready for tomorrow lol
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Some more specific thoughts.
Iâm disappointed theyâre thinking about removing Shadowmend for Disc. I donât feel like Disc is really suffering from button bloat itself, and while others have brought up Discâs lack of shadow spells without Mend, to me the addition of a strong single target heal that isnât also a major source of Atonement healing feels like it fills a solid niche. Even with Contrition allowing Penance to fill that heavy duty single target healing role, I would still like to have it for the flexibility.
Iâve seen the suggestion of having SCov turn Flash into Mend, but I donât think I like that. It puts SCov in this weird position of being an AoE heal that enables stronger single target heals.
Also feels weird to have Mind Games on the chopping block. Itâs a neat form of utility that works for all three specs. If anything, Iâd look at increasing the cooldown (that 30-60s CD range is pretty busy for Holy/Shadow) and see how it feels from there. It doesnât need to be raid CD level, it just needs to be worth it when itâs up and used well.
On Vault of the Heavens, the blue post structured it as something that has to compete with Leap of Faith, butâŚdoes it? Why canât Vault be its own button competing against Feathers? Both are strong movement options, so the choice is less clear.
Brief aside, but is the Evoker buff still reducing Life Gripâs CD? That âmade senseâ when Feathers were a choice node against Body and Soul (so affecting one and not the other would have made Feathers better), but thatâs not the case any more. The Evoker buff should be affecting feathers now.
If there was anything Iâd be looking at to reduce bloat, itâs Fade. Fade doesnât really do anything meaningful as far as Iâm aware (the threat drop aspect was barely even useful in Vanilla) until you reach the final tier of the class tree, where it can then grant 10% DR with 33-50% uptime (for 1-3 points). I can think of things to do with it (like making it give minor DR by default then having a talent that transforms it into Dispersion), but as a baseline spell I donât think itâs pulling its weight. Also, correct me if Iâm wrong, but itâs on the GCD, right? Or was that changed at some point. Itâs off the GCD.
On Disc/Holy getting access to Dispersion, thematically I donât think thereâs an issue. Dispersion doesnât have to be a shadowy blob, it could be a glowing yellow blob, or a mix, itâs just a matter of getting the art assets for it. Mechanically, I think itâd be fine for them in PvE. By default itâs, what, 60% DR on a 2 minute CD? I could see bumping that up an extra minute, which would still leave us pretty squishy, but weâd have an out. In PvP, I canât say.
And finally, a brief, insane aside on Mind Spike. Do not take this seriously. Just for fun, what if Mind Spike was a spender that granted you a stacking increase to haste and damage for a short duration, but also increased its insanity cost per cast? I realize this is absolutely backwards from the actual intent of the spell and using it for Dark Ascension, but in a very stupid way, itâd bring back something like Legion/BfA VF. Build up to near max insanity, start alternating between spiking and building insanity to maintain the buff as long as you can. Thereâs a lot of minor differences in how thatâd play (ex. you could instantly cast, say, 3 spikes to start it rolling, but it might be more optimal to space them out to maximize buff uptime and insanity generation in that time), but itâs neat to think about.
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Because thatâs what shadow cov is used for on live. Mostly on grevious weeks for when things go south, having the extra burst after the initial heal on the whole group is kinda what shadow cov niche is for. It just comes with restriction on not being able to cast wings/dispel or defensives.
Flash heal kinda fill a bit of shadowmend niche, even more so with the free procs if you spec for those. Adding this to shadow cov window would make shadow cov an actual option for pvp while we keep that flavor for when shadowmend is needed in pve situations. Iâd probably spec for it more knowing that my ST heals would benefit more from it.
That suggestion is more in the lines of âif we remove itâ so as to not make shadow covenant a worst option than it already is (or needing another redesign).
Shadow cov isnât even all that great right now because you are piegeon holed into going shadowmend regardlessâŚ
The ideal sollution for me would still be to replace flash heal and have both spell use the same nodes in the tree so as to keep the unified utility⌠I feel flash heal utility (in the class tree) isnât so different than what we have now on live with our 2-set bonus and other nodes donât seem to be so different than masochism/depth of shadow so that they couldnât be merged⌠(ex: masochism and inspiration are similare and should just be 1 node for both spellsâŚ)
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People have been putting the blame of our âpruningâ on PI but, rather, I feel it maybe more a problem with twins 
. Twins being there by default (and easy to pick) is one of the strongest talent points in any given tree in the game⌠Not saying that it should be removed⌠but how can such a strong node be so accessible in the middle of our tree. Thereâs basically no drawbacks.
Meanwhile, bottom of the class tree gets useless nodes like lightâs inspiration and what notâŚ
Thoughts?
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It definitely feels a bit odd that twins is not a capstone. Maybe theyâre worried about it being mandatory anyway so they put it somewhere easily accessible with no cost.
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I agree. But there is way less throughput in the class tree now to justify such a move I feel
Fair point. One of the consequences of not being a priest this expansion, I forgot SCov already worked that way.
I donât have particularly good feedback with regards to how SCov works as a whole. I just donât know what I want from it, I guess.
I think a start might be reversing how PI/Twins works. So make PI self-cast only, Twins then duplicates the effect on a random party member. It could still prefer DPS, but I wouldnât take it far beyond that.
For one, that removes some of the toxicity around PI. Canât yell at the Priest for not PIing you if they donât have control over it.
Two, that means itâs more easily tuned. The duplicated effect can be toned down in whatever ways are deemed necessary, like halving the haste or duration, whatever.
The biggest downside is that losing the ability to choose is a fairly big hit (both in terms of numbers and fantasy). Sometimes itâs nice to give it to a healer.
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Thatâs really mostly a shadow problem⌠healing priests care much more about giving the effect to others.
Thatâs not fun at this point⌠the whole fun of this spell as a healer is to do it at the right time on the right person.
Might as well remove it at this point imoâŚ
Speaking as a pve shadow priest, I agree wholeheartedly that PI isnât an issue - itâs needed. But Twins is potentially problematic and causing a âtaxâ on other utility/damage buffs being offered.
I for one am not excited about Twins. I typically do heroic raiding plus m+ at around 15-17 level keys, so Iâm not hardcore and wonât be spending a lot of thought on who gets my PI, and I will only be using my PI when it is convenient for lining up with my own personal cds. So Iâm not 100% Twins is even going to be as great for someone like me as it would be for more hardcore players that play around it.
As a community, do we want Twins? Well my own personal thought is not really but of course I donât speak for anyone else. Maybe itâs too late to replace it with something else?
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Oh no my friend. I want pi for myself. For fast comfortable ramps. I presume you are talking keys tho :). Then yes
But if pi is the issue. I agree make it self cast. I would prefer the old haste/mana version and drop twins
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Yea I think thatâs what people are saying, Power Infusion = Good, while Twins = controversial, overpowered(?), and a âtaxâ on other potential utilities/damage buffs we could be offered.
As a shadow priest, I NEED Power Infusion for my own personal cdâs, I donât want to watch other peopleâs cdâs and buff them.
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Iâll PI my mindbender and thatâs all folks.
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Idea to make Twins of the Sun Priestess more of a choice rather than a requirement.
Things to considerâŚ
- Holy/Disc want to have the ability to âgiveâ the buff of âPower Infusionâ to others.
- Shadow currently is funneled to have their damage balanced around the idea of âsharingâ Power Infusion with another.
- Holy has baseline Holy Fire (Has a cooldown)
- Discipline has baseline Penance (Has a cooldown)
- Shadow has forced Devouring Plague (Spender/unable to spam)
NEW talentâŚ
-
Unstable Power (Choice talent with Twins of the Sun Priestess)
-
Holy
Holy Fire grants you X% Haste for X sec. -
Discipline
Penance grants you X% Haste for X sec. -
Shadow
Devouring Plague grants you X% Haste for X sec.
-
Holy
What this does is keep the ability to use Power Infusion on an ally (if you choose Twins of the Sun Priestess) OR give yourself a weaker / Mini Power Infusion haste buff on yourself when using a DPS ability that each spec will have and is not able to be spammed.
Options to considerâŚ
- Make âUnstable Powerâ also grant the haste buff on a random target / nearest friendly target from yourself.
- Each spec can now have separate ways to balance Power Infusion via a choice node to be more support vs self empowerment and within the self empowerment, each spec can have its own haste value and its duration adjusted as needed without affecting the others.
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I do too. But I prefer to PI a dps because itâs way more fun for me to time the usage and boost someone else as a healing priest.
Doesnât mean I donât PI myself from time to time. Thatâs all the beauty of this wonderfull tool 
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