The cons that I remember from years ago were (1) lots of admin involved, sometimes to the point of having guild members required to download an addon, (2) not all guilds chose the same things to qualify for EPs, and that could penalize some people who made contributions that weren’t qualifying, (3) depending on the setup it still relies on a member’s honesty about need or off-spec, and (4) if the decay level isn’t properly handled, it is either too much or too little.
Admittedly, none of the guilds I ever raided with used it. One used a modified DKP setup with decay, one used a Suicide Kings combined with main > off-spec, one was a Loot Council with a guild leader and a bunch of friends who genuinely did their best to make sure people were able to gear up. All systems seemed to work fine, which I attribute to the people running and joining those guilds being good people.
That’s a valid point. However, I believe the most popular EPGP addon (and potentially others) makes the transnational logs available to the guild, so if an officer tried to exploit it in this way, they could be reprimanded or kicked, and the points corrected. A GM abusing it would be a huge issue, but at least there’s the advantage of being able to call it out with the transparency the logs provide.
I don’t agree here. This is exactly what decay is for, and it can be increased as needed, especially between tiers.
Frankly the best system I’ve used was just a simple class weighted /need system.
You have to have the right group of people for something like that, but if you do it’s the most straight forward thing imaginable and much much faster.
One of the problems with EPGP is that with specific items in Vanilla the smart guilds will choose who gets an item purely on raid utility/progression. For example, having a tank with Thunderfury is too good to let the bindings be up for grabs.
In my actual Vanilla guild we had a simple policy that if someone needed a piece to complete their class set they automatically got it (assuming it was just one person). In most cases getting another 8 piece bonus in the raid was the most sensible thing to happen with the item.
Awarding loot is strictly player, and specifically officer, driven.
You asked for cons. Abuse. Same as any system.
You offer EGPG as a panacea. It’s not.
Call out and do what? Nothing. Loot belongs the Loot master, to do as they please. By agreeing to Loot Master, you agree to that. Simply saying “EGPG” doesn’t enforce anything.
It won’t effect them in the sense that as long as they keep showing up for raids they’ll keep their top spot, as they should. I think this is a good thing. They aren’t taking gear, and they’re showing up for raids, so yeah, they should have their pick if a nice piece drops. The decay will prevent them from “running away from the pack,” so to speak. They can stay in front by a little and get their piece, then because of decay, once they finally take a piece, they’ll drop to an appropriate level.
You’re right, it’s not perfect, but I believe it’s the best system of all the available options, with the exception of loot council for cutting edge guilds.
In the guild I was in that ran this system we would always get to the point where a player of a certain class has passed loot to get a rare item (like DFT/CTS) to the point where no one besides the top ep/gp player needs the gear any longer, since taking that item would still drop them out of the running for the next big item they want, they let the item get disenchanted rather then take it.
The raid leader and the officers speak in the same channel that everyone else is in, everyone else keeps quiet and listens. If some shady stuff starts going on there’s no hiding it, all forty people hear it. Everyone knows why the loot was handed out to whomever earned it.
Alternatively, a separate channel can be created where the officers and the raid leader speak, a non-officer (or a few) is randomly chosen from the raid (raid roll 1-40 by raid leader) to join the channel and provide input into the discussion as well.
I don’t see a problem with an item like this being given to the MT so long as everyone knew up front. One exception for a very rare and niche item in a 10 boss raid is reasonable, and I don’t see this as a problem with EPGP. (In fact, for this particular item, there’s a good argument they should get it for free because they aren’t getting something that can be immediately used, they’re just getting a chance at gear assuming they’re able to get the second binding, and they wouldn’t even be able to actually obtain it until the next raid tier.)
This isn’t necessarily bad, and you could still charge GP.
The addon keeps track of points - no manual work involved. ML just clicks buttons. All very fast and simple.
Wouldn’t loot council be extremely time consuming in a 40m raid that drops ~30 pieces of gear? If it takes even just 1 minute per piece, that’s a half hour every raid sorting out loot.
I’m not advocating that EPGP is perfect, but rather, that’s it’s far superior to the other options, primarily from a fairness and maintainability standpoint.
For abuse, of course it can be abused, along with every other system. So at worst, EPGP is on equal footing here. At best, its transactional logs provide an extra layer of transparency over systems without logs. If a GM misses a raid where loot was unfairly distributed, it may be more difficult for them to take action if proof can’t be provided. If EPGP is used, they can find proof in the logs.
Again, no other system is better off. EPGP at least provides logs. Personal loot is the only abuse-free system.
From a usability standpoint, as a raid member, you just click a button if you want a piece of gear, and as the master looter, you click a button to distribute the gear. The addon takes care of almost everything, so it’s not required that anyone even understand the nuts and bolts of the system. For whoever does the initial setup, very little configuration is required.
In fact, the addon’s interface can potentially greatly speed up the loot distribution process, and reduce human-error.
Sounds like you should change the title of the thread, then.
Also, your main “selling point” of this system is the addon. Every other loot system has an addon to accompany it. So, other than the addon, what is the benefit?
LMAO PoL is back on ED?! I remember when you guys ran with your tails between your legs to WRA. Kag will always be under my heel. Please re-read my post, you are missing a lot (which is expected).
I loved EPGP in the guild that I was in, you know why? Because even though I really didn’t understand the system at all, I was absolutely the most geared player in the guild by a fair margin.
Do I have any idea how that happened? No clue. I was just geared to the max and I wasn’t about to complain.
Loot council is the superior product for vanilla. Pre-stack tanks in multiple raid environments, make sure your girlfriend gets the first Benediction, and give Thori’dal to the rogue officer.
Except the problem isn’t just that someone can hoard in MC and then spend it in BWL. It’s that their gear is falling behind and they’re impeding progression.
Purely using a ratio also puts new members at an advantage over existing members because, no matter how many times that founding member has attended raids, if he’s ever bought a single item he’s going to have a worse ratio than the guy who just made full member. and has a ratio of X:0