^
Catch-up, in the abstract, is fine. Catch-up outright surpassing entire tiers of current, and for some of these Benthics surpassing all tiers of content by a fair margin including stuff that hasn’t even been released, is not.
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At this point, if you’re unhappy with the current gear model then start asking yourself if this will be the straw that broke the camels back. It’s another pandora’s box that I doubt they’ll be able to close.
First it was: I pay $15, so I should be able to see all the content.
Now it’s: I pay $15, so I should be as geared as everyone else.
Fortunately, I’m not a super gear oriented player and primarily play for the puzzle. But from a gear stand point… Character progression is dead in retail. Or, more specifically put, character progression past the first month of a new tier is dead. Everything past that is just a skinner box. Gone are the days of the game being about a persistent journey through the content. At this point, I’d rather they just give us the gear and let me go about progressing through the PvE puzzles.
I’ll play classic for an actual RPG experience (character progression, gear progression perspective) and to feel like I’m part of something bigger than myself. I’ll play retail for the more complex PvE game play experience, nothing more.
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Yep. Take my toon, for example. Higher GS items will give me more of my main stat, which is agility. Agility is pretty far down on the list of my simmed stat weights. In fact, it’s dead last. So just because something is an item level upgrade doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a dps upgrade. I know I’m not the only one who knows how to sim my stuff and apply that knowledge accordingly.
Thats the current metrics. From my understanding the design of the xpac was supposed to be mainstat rules. They have been unsuccessful so far however, i have heard this patch will change that.
A SIM is only as good as the information provided by blizzard and more changes are yet to come.
Also all the HOA stuff isnt completely unlocked.
Not sure how accurate the SIM today will be 3-4 weeks from now.
It will also give you more budget for secondaries, Agility may be far down but what about crit? haste? Mastery? Versitility? This is often why some will take a 400 over a 415 at the difference listed though, one is getting into the area where the raw budget will, in most cases, make the ilvl an actual upgrade.
Yet you were dumb enough to focus on one stat instead of all the stats you can get. If agility only provides say 1 point of DPS for 1 point of agility yet crit provides 3 points of DPS and the new item increases your crit by 20, would that not be an upgrade? And before you say crit is also low for you, just replace crit with haste, mastery, etc.
I was giving an example of why one item may not be an upgrade over another based solely on gear score. That hardly qualifies me as stupid. Of course other stat budgeting comes into play as well. I just wasn’t using that as part of my example for simplification purposes. Even then, an “upgrade” with the wrong stats still won’t be an upgrade for me because my secondaries are so much more important than my main stat. That was what I was getting at.
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I have yet to see one forego a 35 or 55 ilvl upgrade. At that difference it is quite possible that even one with the wrong stats is a small upgrade due to stat budget. I too sim my gear from time to time, but I tend to sim in a 5-15 ilvl range, or a range where the budget does not have that much of an effect.
I never meant to imply that, but there is a point where raw ilvl upgrade will over come stats. I guess if you can prove one will forego an ilvl upgrade like 425 to 460 or 480 I will concede.
The issue I just had with your example is it was for one that is likely an outlier and very rare in the current game as even I recall like back in BC a trinket, Dragon Spine Trophy, was BIS for quite a few DPS up to Sunwell if not into Sunwell.
Which is why I specified for MY toon. I’m enhancement. I’m not even running the optimal dps spec (I hate ele) but it’s the one I enjoy the most. I never implied that this is true for anyone but me. It was just an example of why gearscore isn’t always king. The person I was replying to seemed hyper-focused on the shiny numbers on the gear.
I just want to take a moment and acknowledge the brave souls who threw themselves into the flaming crucible to warn us of the dangers of Benthic gear, that then didn’t get nerfed today and life goes on and no one will remember them. What was I saying? Oh yes…
I didn’t say absurd extrapolation for no reason. Hyperbole is just exaggeration. You didn’t just exaggerate, you extrapolated from game systems to a comparison to a completely different game. That’s exactly what a slippery slope is, extrapolation to an absurd conclusion. You literally pointed at Benthic and then lead to a conclusion about Diablo loot systems coming to WoW. That’s the definition of slippery slope.
Ah, so you have to change the context to pretend it wasn’t a false dichotomy? You didn’t say “your choices appear to be x and y” like you quoted above. You asked a question and said “Do you prefer X or do you prefer Y” where both X and Y were extremes, X was the extreme you prefer, Y was the extreme you denigrated as you explained it, and neither was a valid answer simply by looking at his previous responses. If you would have said it the way you claim you said it above that would not have been one but you didn’t.
But we also know that your claim about nuance is a lie, the first extreme you listed was your opinion about “difficulty determining rewards”. If you actually believed your comment about nuance it would be fine for the bulk (75%+) of rewards to be determined by difficulty and other rewards to be determined by time investment and other rewards to be determined by whatever other factor (say, RNG world drops or something). But you don’t want that. That’s why you’re in here upset about Benthic in the first place. As a callback to the start if they were going to nerf them or deactivate them in the raid we’d have seen it. That didn’t happen. And that’s a great thing ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
His argument is, “your position is entirely opinion and I don’t agree”. That’s an entirely valid counter argument to an opinion. That’s kinda how opinions work since…well…they’re just opinions.
He doesn’t. At least he didn’t up until he subbed to try to fish for Classic beta access according to him. That’s not to say he plays, just that he said he has an active sub. I know for the longest time prior to Classic beta he was constantly throwing out how he wasn’t subbed to me in casual hating threads complaining about forging or ML removal.
Catch up surpassing old season content is perfectly fine. Just like what happened when Crucible released.
Benthic isn’t just catch up. It’s also meant to be progression for everyone this tier. And that’s perfectly fine too. Feel free not to buy it if you don’t like it.
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And the award for reading comprehension goes to…someone else.
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That’s exactly what I want, you’re just projecting and making assumptions because you’re not trying to see anything other than your point of view.
I really don’t want the 99% of people who are worse at the game dictating to ME what I should have to do to achieve my goals, either. They’re not good enough to be doing that.
I’ll compromise: you can have your faceroll wellface epix that require nothing but you logging in every day for a period of time and pressing the auto attack button so long as it has no impact in my realm of play. K? k.
That’s talking about Benthic in relation to current content…
That’s talking about catch up being released late into a season with new content and being higher than old current tier content. Note, I didn’t say last season, I said old season content. As in BoD content when Crucible was released. That’s perfectly fine too. There was no confusion about what you were talking about. I was pointing out that your opinion is just an opinion and I disagree and so does Blizzard.
But by all means, default to being snarky if you don’t have any argument to make. /slowclap
Then you can sit down because 4 pieces of Benthic gear for either 15 or 16 slots is ~25% coming from time gated and 75% comes from content based on difficulty. So what, exactly, are you complaining about again? Oh that’s right, nothing. Lol. Thanks for walking into that. I couldn’t have planned it better myself.
He doesn’t really understand the process of reading and then processing the information he just took in.
I understand his wrong position perfectly fine. He’s free to have any opinion he wants. I disagree. So does Blizzard. Who wins there? Because it’s not him or you.
And when they do something you disagree with, you’ll happily sit down and shut up instead of complain right? I hope to see that day.
I went over this much earlier in the thread: A 40 ilvl upgrade that gives you around +100 main stat gives you about +15 of a given secondary stat. You can see it yourself just by upgrading the benthic gear.
And in the case of the benthic gear, the bonus effects on certain pieces more than outweigh the raw stats you could gain from 20 or 30 ilvls.
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Isn’t the point of Mythic to out gear it and do well?
We could talk about a lot of things that I disagree with that Blizzard does. I’m not going to start crying about how they’re destroying the game and they’re horrible people and they deserve to be fired and how “mythic raiders are ruining the game”. That’s your side of the fence. Generally speaking I understand Blizzard’s goals because they often tell us. Except class design stuff. That’s usually where I have no idea what they’re doing because they simply stopped communicating about that years ago. But that doesn’t mean I jump on the bandwagon and start Blizzard hating either. I’m perfectly capable of being critical of Blizzard’s decisions without resorting to juvenile tantrums.
Ah see, when it comes to things I used to love, when they get changed into things I no longer love, I tend to complain until I either lose interest entirely, or they go back tot he way they were when I like them, or they change them to something new I like even more.
I basically never shut up unless I’m completely satisfied. You’re just more reserved than me, or accepting, or whatever. I don’t care. I’m here and won’t go quietly.