Benched for choosing the wrong covenant

[Ymmv-eonar]

@Gingee-moon-guard

as it was said at one point by Ian

There’s your problem.
You believed Ion.

[Wariya-stormrage (Wariya)]

@Mongbow-illidan

Racials are like .1%, covenants are like 3-5%.

So its still subpar play isn’t it ? BIS mean best in slot not .1% away from being best in slot

Class might be 30% if you go into logs, some classes are mid tier because of the covenant boost and are still not BIS

[Metrohaha-firetree (Metrohaha)]

The community makes it tone deaf because they are tone deaf themselves.
Not everyone cares about this, and most of the issue arises from simple imbalance, that exists everywhere.

Its obvious they were not going to make every single class have 4 amazing options, but that is not enough of a reason to not go ahead with the idea, when they can’t even make every single spec in the game work well.

Maybe some day they can start anew with a fresh wow2 or something, but until then, you should cope with the fact that you live on a rocking boat with thousands of competing viewpoints.

Imbalance is a part of life.

The best players will use that to their advantage.
The rest will… make threads about it, or so it seems.

[Phatfarm-shattered-hand]

This is just another success from Ion’s dev team

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

You’re right in that if it’s a negligible difference, most people will ignore it if they find another ability more fun or whatever.

Racials are a pretty good example of that, with most people ignoring the actual throughput racials offer because it’s so close that it doesn’t even matter and picking based on either utility or looks.

I think last check there was about a ~100 DPS difference between the best Warlock race (Mechagnome) and the worst (Vulpera)? I’m not giving up 10% extra rep this early in the expansion just to play a diaper-gnome for 50 extra DPS, especially not when there’s bugs like Gnomes being unable to do some mechanics cause they’re too short.

But Blizzard have worked pretty hard after the disaster of Berserking and EMFH to ensure that racials are nice to have, but never gamebreaking. That’s why they removed Stoneforms ability to cleanse most Nathria bleeds.

Blizzard want there to be a difference between Covenants. Maybe not in the sense that a Kyrian Paladin is inherently stronger than a Venthyr or Necrolord Paladin, but enough of a difference that they play differently.

And given Blizzards track record in balancing these kind of things, it was inevitable that there would be a big enough gap that people would care about it.

[Chawana-altar-of-storms (Chawana)]

@Thalethis-moon-guard

What spec do you play because Night Fae is absolutely not terrible. Fae Transfusion is a bit different (but very useful on Enhance) but at minimum you now have a blink glued to a super ghost wolf

Transfusion is good single-target damage, but the heal pulse range is incredibly small, and a 2 minute channel means it’s super easy to mess up. Not to mention: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/fae-transfusion-is-splitting-damage-with-things-that-cant-be-damaged-gif-inside/763191

So I guess the answer is: I’m resto. Yes, I’m aware of the benefits of the covenant. I’m not saying it’s not useful, it’s obviously useful; my issue is that in regard to power, it’s literally the only resto covenant that is said to be sub-par on Icy Veins…but I’m likely just saying the same thing again.

But yeah, never said it was terrible…just a ‘not good’ outlier, and it figures it’s the one I like.

[Wariya-stormrage (Wariya)]

@Metrohaha-firetree

The rest will… make threads about it, or so it seems.

A lot of whiny threads about it

[Mongbow-illidan]

@Xianwae-wyrmrest-accord

I 100% guarantee you that my performance is hampered more by missing GCD casts when I could’ve reacted quicker than what covenant I chose. The 1% of optimization difference in my covenant choice has little to do with it at that point because I’m not operating at peak efficiency to start with.

That kind of proves my point though, yes? If you are screwing up one thing you are likely screwing up other stuff…

For people who pick the wrong covenant (and I mean super wrong, like hard trolling and going Venthyr or Necrolord as MM, not choosing between viable options like Kyrian or Night Fae) this is typically not the only thing they are doing wrong.

[Greyback-maelstrom]

@Metrohaha-firetree

Not everyone cares about this, and most of the issue arises from simple imbalance, that exists everywhere.

Anyone who wants to complete the game has to care about this.

That’s difference. If it only affected stuff like speed running or any other quirky challenges a bored elite amongst players like to focus on. I’d agree its no big deal.

But you can’t finish the game if you pick the wrong covenant, literally. How is that good design?

[Nillah-ravencrest]

@Greyback-maelstrom

But you can’t finish the game if you pick the wrong covenant, literally.

Citation needed

[Greyback-maelstrom]

@Nillah-ravencrest

Citation needed

Try applying to a Mythic Guild as a Venthyr Hunter.

[Samtaya-wyrmrest-accord]

@Metrohaha-firetree

If some one picked a covenant they disliked just to get a few percent DPS more, that will may lead them to not be a part of the roster in the long run due to burn out, so its a net DPS loss in my eyes.

I also don’t think you’re running a top 100 guild where the only thing they care about is eking out every last drop of efficiency. I mean, this could be true in guilds that aren’t top 100, but when you’re there to have fun playing in a raid and not a competition ladder, it’s not as important to try to strictly obey the spreadsheets.

@Greyback-maelstrom

Literally anyone who wants to complete the game has to care about this.

This is frankly untrue. I might complete the content slower, but I’m still going to get it done. I’m not exiled from raiding just because I’m not in a Super Hardcore Mythic Guild as my second job.

[Nillah-ravencrest]

So you don’t have proof that you literally can’t complete mythic as the “wrong” covenant, at least we got that out of the way.

[Nippysmilk-barthilas (Nippysmilk)]

I just get more triggered that we give feedback on these problems and we get like 1 weak balance patch once a blue moon to band aid fix them

If they addressed some more of the issues classes face when they come up they wouldn’t need to reinvent the wheel with classes every xpac and lessen the load work

[Horrid-illidan]

@Gingee-moon-guard

Hello all, this is just going to be pretty much for those that RP and raid or care about class and character identity as it doesn’t have much impact on those that don’t find these things important.

Like the title says I was benched for choosing a covenant that was not the best for my class. Now I play on an RP server but also do heroic raiding. After my guild fell apart I found another and we meshed wonderfully. It was stated over and over again that since we all RP as well as raid that we could choose whatever covenant we wanted as it was said at one point by Ian that our choice wouldn’t make that big of an impact on performance. Well, we all know that ended up changing.

Long story short I main an affliction Warlock and Kyian is the best covenant for her but it makes absolutely no sense to me when it comes to character identity. I highly doubt the Kyrian are going to welcome someone who consorts with demons with open arms so I chose Venthyr for her which imo is much more fitting and while it is low on the list for performance it’s not the worst choice.

My raid leader lost his ever loving mind once I dinged and was asked who I went with. I reminded him that it was stated that since we RP with our characters that we could choose any of them. This only ticked him off further stating that
" I didn’t think Heroic raiders would need their handheld and told to pick a covant that wouldn’t end up hindering our progress" and called me selfish along with some pretty sexiest comments about me caring more about looking pretty than actually contributing to our success. (there was more said but this is already getting too long.) I was told I would need to change covenant ASAP to Kyrian or I could warm the bench with the rest of the women. I did end up leaving the guild sadly as just too many things were said. While I have a super thick skin and have been playing 11yrs I’m not going to tolerate crap like that.

Now my questions are:
1.Is it really that big of a deal for heroic raiding?
2. Why on earth did Blizz make Kyrians best for affliction locks if class identity is important (they have said this repeatedly)
3. Since I’m unwilling to switch her to Kyrian would it be in my best interest to just lvl another class I don’t RP with and try and find someone with an open Heroic raiding spot?
4. Are there even guilds out there who don’t have a full roster atm? I would think this early into the game good raiding guilds are already going to have their teams set.

I’m just kind of sad and frustrated. I really did enjoy that guild and we all got along so good which is why it was such a shock to hear our raid leader go off like that.

People are going to be regularly pugging the H raid to completion out of LFG in a month. If your guild was doing mythic and competing for server 1st, I’d understand his annoyance some but it sounds like the guy needs a reality check.

[Greyback-maelstrom]

You’re going to pretend the social aspect of the game is a non-factor now?

[Nillah-ravencrest]

Nope. Just proving that your ridiculous rhetoric is… ridiculous. Saying instead “if you’re the wrong covenant you’re going to have a lot more trouble finding a mythic guild” is correct.

[Oblivionring-illidan]

I pugged most of Heroic Nyalotha and had like terrible azerite essences and gear. People thinking covenant choice is an issue, are delusional. It’s been beaten to death, but unless you’re top tier pvping or bleeding edge mythic raiding, covenant choice is less important than mechanic or class knowledge. Literally won’t make a difference

[Ulgag-illidan]

It’s a non factor for all the people that just play the game solo.

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

Lets be real. You can argue on a technically that it’s possible to “beat” the game while playing a substandard spec or picking a bad Covenant.

There were literally dozens of Sub Rogues and Survival Hunters who managed to kill Mythic N’zoth. You just gotta ignore the tens of thousands of BM Hunters and…whatever spec Rogues played in 8.3 (Assassination?) who killed him by comparison.

But to deny the massive quality of life that playing a good spec provides in the social aspect of the game is silly. Off-meta specs are basically second class citizens in the WoW.