Seems my attempt at fixing your major malfunction was unsuccessful.
Still repeating the same thing.
I see you’ve learned the word ‘disingenuous’, though.
Just gotta work on its use.
Yes, there has been faction-specific content in the past.
But something tells me that putting a random Horde camp in the middle of the Emerald Dream for some reason would kind of destroy the entire narrative theme of 10.2
Just repeat the same things over and over, apt decision.
As I said before, which you might’ve just ignored:
But nobody is pretending there hasn’t been both Horde and Alliance content. There is no “Horde content” in DF though, so pretending this is a case of both factions seeing semi-equal treatment? That’s truly disingenuous.
But you brought up a good point; the factions and the health of the game.
The Burning Crusade. Wrath of the Lich King.
Both are definitively the peak health of the game. During both, the Horde and Alliance took major back seats. Other than small bases and (for TBC) the two new racial capitals, there wasn’t content truly locked off from one faction or the other. We shared Hellfire Peninsula. We shared Terokar Forest, Nagrand, Zangarmarsh and the rest. We shared Howling Fjords’ death cliffs, and Boring Tundra’s boringness. No major content was exclusive to a single faction, and largely those factions were limited to appearances by Thrall, Garrosh, Varian and Jaina.
Even when the Isle of Quel’Dalas was released, a zone very much tied to the blood elves, the Alliance were allowed there no problem.
Not really, you are acting as if there hasn’t been faction specific content “Barring an entire playerbase from new content is bad and serves nothing.”, when there has been throughout the history of wow, so yes when you say it’s bad and serves nothing, when it has been what wow has been about since the beginning is indeed disingenuous. It’s probably just easier to crank out neutral content where everyone does the same thing.
It just means it’s a neutral hub, like a CC town. If they are trying to get rid of factions more neutral areas, like this, this is what it’s going to look like and it is a neutral hub.
There were faction only hubs and questing in those expansions, just like every other expansion except like shadowlands and df, everything wasn’t available to both factions, leveling then was a huge portion of the game. The main story was the same, but the factions weren’t questing together and pretending like there was no faction specific content or that it was “bad” is stupid.
Y’know like…
Looking beyond each other’s differences, working together, getting over past hatreds, looking toward the future, fighting the good fight… Typical Warcraft universe stuff.
Making an entirely separate factional zones or factional settlements…
In the Emerald Dream…
Doesn’t really make any sense and is antithetical to the narrative of this expansion, as I said before.
Are you speaking from a gameplay or lore perspective, then?
From a lore perspective the factions exist, from a gameplay perspective…
Yeah, it’s a neutral settlement technically.
Getting rid of the faction system as a gameplay mechanic would ultimately be a good thing, and I unironically stand by that.
It’s outdated and it sucks.
Not sure if you realize but factional questing zones along the lines of vanilla (which seems to be what you’re arguing) don’t fit-in with the current theme of the game.
Nor would it make much sense in adding that for the Emerald Dream…
Again, narrative of the whole expansion.
That system also fit well for the older version of the game because it was held by a different structure. The game was largely leveling-focused.
I don’t think you’re understanding the difference here, so let me help.
Frostfire Ridge is a zone primarily focused around the Horde’s story during WoD. Did that bar Alliance players from accessing it? Not at all. Were there things Alliance players could do there? Yup, there were. You even got flight paths!
Honor Hold is an Alliance hub in HFP. It’s across from a Horde hub. Both factions share the entire zone beyond these two (and two other) small hubs, and neither faction is barred from at least 90% of the entire zone. Often the quests for one faction mirror the quests for the other.
Nobody’s actually doing that. You keep insisting people are, but nobody has actually done that. Even with Bel’ameth allowing Horde players and all of two whole Horde NPCs to visit there, this is still not that. The debuff is very clear that the Horde player is under heavy watch. So even that is not what you’re accusing it of being.
But okay. Let’s try and meet you halfway.
List one single zone that isn’t a faction capital or one of the leveling zones associated with that faction that has ever been barred for an entire faction. You keep acting like this is the norm and Amirdrassil should follow that trend, but nobody else seems to have an example showcasing that trend.
From both a lore perspective and gameplay it’s also a neutral hub and the horde are allowed there, are there any non night elf alliance characters there? I don’t know, but there are horde aligned characters like Hamuul there.
Yes, and that is why it’s a neutral hub.
The night elf museum is the hub.
You can run into any zone/area on any faction, you just get attacked in some you aren’t really barred from going anywhere, but that is why Bel’ameth is a neutral hub and not a faction capital, since every faction capital is faction specific. Sure they will probably change that in the future to make every city neutral as they remove factions and those cities get updates, but that doesn’t stop Bel’ameth from being a neutral hub now.
Uhm… But like, no tho. It’s an entire zone with a few smaller hubs placed around it.
You are trying very hard to dance around answering the question by giving a pedantic quasi-answer. I think you know that because you know there isn’t much of a solid foundation to your argument.
I think maybe you keep missing it when people tell you, but the PTR is not finished yet. More keeps getting added.
The PTR is not finished yet. More keeps getting added.
The PTR is not finished yet. More keeps getting added.
The PTR is not finished yet. More keeps getting added.
I really hate doing that, but you keep seeming to miss that tidbit and I’m hoping if I repeat it a few times you’ll finally see it.
The PTR is not finished yet. More keeps getting added.
Just because the Horde are allowed there doesn’t mean it’s ‘neutral’ (story-wise).
It’s Alliance-aligned… Or rather aligned with the Night Elves.
The Horde are just… allowed to walk through it, that’s it.
Not even citizens or residents or anything like that, simply allowed to visit.
I’ve only ever really been talking about the settlement within a story-based context.
Think your malfunction is getting worse.
Either that or you just completely tried dodging Alynsa’s challenge.
Or you’re just bad at juggling arguments because you were arguing that Bel’ameth was neutral with me and not Alynsa.
Well, really I was only ever arguing that it wasn’t a neutral hub story-wise, only neutral within a gameplay framework.
Every faction specific hub, I said in the part you cut off that this is not a faction capital because it’s a neutral hub area. The night elf zone of Teldrassil has been the only actual zone to be destroyed in game, they haven’t got a replacement for it, this isn’t it either as it’s a neutral area, Hamuul is in the main temple.
Maybe they will add more content, that doesn’t really change much, repeating it over and over doesn’t really change how empty it is on the PTR, it’s just an extra zone for a minor patch at the end of the expansions, I wouldn’t expect it to be anything substantial.
If the horde are allowed there it is indeed neutral story-wise. Night elves live there now and Hamuul is in the main temple, it doesn’t mean storywise it’s not a neutral hub just because a forsaken hasn’t built a house there yet. Horde are allowed there which makes it neutral in the context of the factions.
But like… It’s not. It is very obviously a night elf zone that allows two tauren and the Horde player access.
You won’t see forsaken NPCs wandering around. No orcs, no trolls, no blood elves, no other tauren beyond the Runetotems. Thrall won’t have a treehouse to live in, Lillian won’t be hanging around the shops.
It is functioning as a neutral hub for gameplay purposes, but it is clearly not story-wise neutral, nor does it otherwise behave as a neutral hub.
You know that two weeks ago, there weren’t even NPCs there, right?
Like, it’s very hard to have a discussion with you when you insist on being dishonest about the state of the PTR as an ongoing development and keep behaving like what we have now is all we’ll ever see.
I’m starting to think that maybe you are malfunctioning.
What are you even saying here.
That’s just blatantly wrong.
We’re talking about the actual alignment of the city…
Not, whatever you’re talking about.
The Horde have no power over it, the Alliance does have control over it.
Bel’ameth is under the control of the Alliance… Making it…
Say it with me here…
Alliance-aligned.
Just because the Horde can walk through it doesn’t mean that it’s aligned with the Horde in any capacity.
If a Tuskarr walked through it, it wouldn’t mean that Bel’ameth is somehow aligned with the Kalu’ak… It just means that members of the Kalu’ak aren’t perceived as hostile within Bel’ameth.
Like, what?
What?
It’s-… It’s empty in PTR because it’s PTR… They haven’t added anything to it yet.
It only just got NPCs.
This stuff changes…
Do you know what the PTR is?
And… even if it was entirely empty on some strange alternate world or timeline…
It’s still like… content?
Content that should be accessible by both factions.
Instead of content accessible by one faction while the other… watches, I guess?
You also don’t see any non-night elf npcs walking around I don’t believe, the only non night elf is horde. It’s neutral both for gameplay and storywise, that is why the horde is allowed there, but the alliance is not allowed in horde cities, which are not neutral. Here everyone can just come to it making it neutral.
Huh? Neutral areas don’t mean you have to have any power over it, CC areas are neutral, Shattrath is neutral, Oribos is neutral, it doesn’t mean the horde or alliance have any power over them. These are just areas where everyone is welcome, Night elves can’t go into org, undercity or Thunderbluff, those are not neutral areas, the horde can go into this neutral hub, making it of course neutral. Having “power” over a zone doesn’t actually indicate if it’s neutral or not.
So because there are dozens of night elves and all of two tauren, that… What?!? What even is this argument, Mara? You’re better than this.
Alliance players can still go to the Isle of Quel’Delas. Does that mean the blood elves have forfeited their sovereignity over the land and made it neutral within the story?? I mean, there are far more than two draenie there, so the story must be wrong about the Sunwell, right?
I give up. Again. Clearly you’re approaching this from a perspective of willful dishonesty, which I hadn’t expected from you.
Yeah?
Those are two entirely different scenarios.
Ones that aren’t really applicable here, really.
Since neither fit into the Horde and Alliance context, they’re completely divorced from it.
Bel’ameth isn’t neutral because it’s controlled by the Alliance…
That’s literally it.
There’s Horde there, but they’re just visiting.
They’re just… Not being treated with hostility.
But if they did, and they weren’t killed…
They wouldn’t suddenly stop being Horde-aligned.
I think you’re just arguing this in an entirely different framework than everyone else.
You’re talking about the actual… Like, relations between the different nations, I guess?
Which yeah, the current relationship between the Alliance and Horde is currently neutral since BfA… with some lingering mistrust.
At least, that’s my last ditch effort at understanding literally anything you’re saying here.
I’m honestly just starting to feel like this conversation is as useless as arguing with Gollum as to why I should have the ring.
Literally just willfully ignoring everything everyone is saying.
The Draenei helped the blood elves take it back and cleanse the sunwell, the draenei also aren’t there after the raid as it was a neutral questing zone before then, but then written as blood elf only, I don’t think there are even any non-blood elves, this wasn’t some zone that was updated after the raid other than a bunch of blood elf guards in there when you go for a quest. Draenei can’t go into Quel’thalas, yet, despite all the help they gave to the blood elves in take back the sunwell for the blood elves benefit.
No, those are the same scenarios, having power or not over a zone isn’t what makes it neutral, it being neutral for either faction is what makes it neutral, as in who can go there, like Oribos wouldn’t be neutral for the Jailers forces but it’s neutral for the enemies of the jailer, Orgrimmar is neutral for friends of the horde, it’s hostile for alliance, Bal’ameth is neutral for the horde you won’t get attacked like night elves would get attacked in horde main cities and storywise they aren’t welcome in horde cities like they are welcome here. If this is suppose to be a “capital” it’s also the only neutral faction capital.
Neutral just means anyone can go there on any faction, like Bel’ameth, Oribos, Shattrath etc. as it’s not hostile to either faction. Non neutral means it’s faction restricted like Stormwind, Org and Thunderbluff because those areas are hostile to the other faction. Of course they are likely moving in the direction of making everything neutral as they move away from the factions, like in Midnight and I’m assuming Gilneas will be neutral as well and if they ever update undercity that will probably be neutral as well.
I think making 10.2 about Amirdrassil was conceptually a stupid idea from the start. The expansion’s supposed to be about dragons, and capping it off with this genoseed swerves the limelight away from that and into it being all about night elves instead. And the worst part is that this is looking to be the expansion’s endgame treadmill content for half a year or more.
I’ll just say the gilnean stuff is promising, no horde being datamined there is a plus.
I still think most gilneans should adopt Ivars policy regarding the forsaken, considering what they did at Gilneas, than Darkshore/Teldrassil. And that likely isn’t going to change. It’s just how I personally feel about it
That’s all. I also don’t want to get into a thirty response arguement on why I shouldn’t feel that way either. I will say I DO NOT MIND CITIES GOING NEUTRAL just that they could’ve have handle it better than they did.
I still really like Amdrissal. I’m going to enjoy it regardless. I just ask that people realize certain things are really sensitive topics for some us
I don’t think it sounds petty at all. I am not fond of the idea that horde players are walking around a city that is suppose to be a night elf capital. Just doesn’t seem right. Im worried Gilneas and Silvermoon will get the same treatment.
