Being out DPSed by iLvL 420's as a iLvL 442 WW

Classes Monk
1

Before using the Onyx Annulet, my DPS was on par with classes that had a similar item level as mine. I currently have an iLvl of 442, but when I replace the annulet with a normal epic ring at iLvl 437, I’m being outperformed by players who have a lower item level by 20 points. It has become necessary for me to switch to the Brewmaster or Mistweaver specialization, as playing as a Windwalker in higher level dungeons is now embarrassing.

The recent nerf to the annulet has had a severe negative impact on us Windwalkers. I want to clarify that this issue is not simply a case of being paired with exceptionally skilled DPS players who happen to have an item level of 420. I have experience running over 300+ mythic+ dungeons, so I am well aware of how my damage output compares to other classes of different ilvls. The discrepancy in performance cannot be attributed solely to the skill or gear of other players and in fact it’s due to wind walkers being undertuned for pve.

http s://imgur.com/a/N1qhXu1 (image, remove spaces)

It’s incredibly frustrating when, halfway through a dungeon, the DPS of a my Windwalker now starts to feel like dead weight/a carry.

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2

Do you have logs to show this? Cause if this is the case, the reason is almost certainly one of skill.

3 Likes
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I don’t have logs rn, and I don’t think its a skill thing. I’ve ran over 300+ mythic+ dungeons just this season alone. I know how my dps compares to other classes before the annulet nerf and now after.

I guess I’ll just play heals until blizzard gives us 10 more of that 2% buff or something.

4

one of the big problems is wasted overkill dmg from multi-Touch of Death that gets recorded in logs. once they removed that, devs can balance aoe and single target a lot better

5

What specs are beating you? I can’t discern much apart from what you’re telling us, and your gear. Gearwise, I can only recommend that you use trinkets like Neltharion’s Trinket over the bomb trinket for keys because you can get a lot more mileage out of Neltharion’s in keys.

What’s your average overall damage at the end of key?

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6

If you swapped the Annulet out for a 447 ring then your DPS should be the same, potentially slightly higher in AOE. If the difference is big enough to notice then it certainly has nothing to do with the ring nerf.

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7

warcraft logs have all the logs you want/need. the proof’s been there for months; it’s just getting even worse now.

8

Can you show me the data where, at equal skill levels, Windwalker is losing to another spec despite a 20 ilvl difference?

I’m more aware of the WCL data than just about anyone on the planet, but I can’t find data that supports the claim that WW loses to any spec with a 20 ilvl gap.

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9

this is just with a quick log search, but this shows just how bad our dps is compared to similar ilvls, averaged out:

to get what you’re specifically asking for, you’d need exact logs to make comparisons…

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What do you think that screen shot is showing? We’re about 5-6% behind the median in the abstracted score calculation, all else being equal, which sucks but isn’t “people we have 20 ilvls on beat us”.

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no, but it’s a safe assumption that lower geared versions of those top tiered dps will outperform the bottom of the barrel dps in equal if not higher gear… not to mention you CAN set it to specific ilvl brackets and compare.

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so here’s the chart when set to the monk’s ilvl (441-443):

hmm…

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What is the hmm?

I’m avoiding two reports I have to write, so here’s how you do this comparison:

First, you have to use Heroic data, since there’s very little data on Mythic at 420-ish item level.

So, your conjecture is that WCL has the data that shows, for months, that with skill being equal, Windwalkers lose to another spec even with a 20 ilvl advantage, and that that gap has been getting worse. The 444-446 item level bracket is the highest one with a few thousand points of data, so its a good one to use, since the bracket 20 ilvl below (rounded up) 426-428 also has a large amount of data to use. Certainly if this gap exists at 18 ilvl difference then that’s close enough to say there’s a problem.

Heroic Windwalker Overall Data at 444-446 item level:

So now we look at 20 ilvl lower, or in this case 18. I’ll look at the top spec for each %ile, cause if they don’t beat the Windwalker with this item level gap then no one will.

There’s no point in going below the 75th %ile at this item level bracket, since at that point you’re already below the 10th %ile 444-446 Windwalker.

So, looking at this data, if skill, or at least skill relative to others in their respective specs, and thus their percentile, is equal, the 18 item level gap is impossible to make up, even for the best specs with the best data.

In order for the best Fire Mage to make up the 16-20 item level gap, the Winwalker would have to be performing at, or below, the 75th percentile. There’s a ton more variables that make a direct comparison impossible, and this is certainly swatting a bug with a bazooka, but I’ve always felt that hyperbole does no one any good, so this is the actual data.

Conclusion: If you’re getting beaten by someone 20 ilvl below you, it is a skill issue, not because your class lost a few %.

5 Likes
14

We climbed up to eighth from last at some point? I honestly thought we were lower in that dataset.

It’s not great or fun but there’s people worse off. We’re ahead of all three hunters in that. Sucks for them. I think we actually climbed on that specific chart in 1.1.5

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i’ll stop you right here. it’s not collected over months- i specifically set it for the last 7 days, being a new patch with changes happened tuesday.

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we are. this was set to a specific ilvl range that the OP stated and for only the last 7 days averages.

17

Sorry, when you said the proof was there for months, I assumed you meant months, not 7 days.

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i was speaking generally overall with that comment, but the charts were supposed to support the OP’s opinion. sorry

19

I thought the OP was asking about M+ and not raid.

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That specific one doesn’t seem to, and actually puts others in a worse spot than us. The 20 ilvl claim is not how things are now. We’re under the median, which is never fun, but we’re not even the worst off currently.