But that number includes people who have only done a single 2 key. The numbers of starting isn’t a good representation of class balance.
Some people only okay as far as to get KSM. It’s hard to use starting numbers as a metric when not everyone who steps foot into m+ is looking to push the highest key they can. I for example am more worried about fleshing our an io score than pushing a high key. Granted I could have worked my way up to a single 20 key and still it have reached my goal of 2k io (that’ll come after KSM).
But I do see what you’re getting at and I do agree there’s some merit what you’re saying. It is harder for bears to get to and complete 20 keys compared to other tanks. No denying that Bears are at the bottom right now.
Even the numbers I want to use to support my argument show that Druids are sitting at like 60.8% completion for timed 20s, and Monks are like 62%
So Bears are still the worst off tanks. But as bad as everyone else is making it out to be? No. Beyond 20s though, and I’ve said this before, their issues grow just as exponentially as mob health and damage does. Which is why I agree with:
Hey Grizzle, maybe this can help illustrate the problem in your comparison.
I can’t normalize based on individuals because I don’t have that much information, but I can normalize based on difficulty of certain tasks. For example, I can say that a +20 for a warrior tank is as easy as passing a driving test, and a +20 for a guardian druid is as hard as passing the Bar exam. The gap is not actually that big, I intentionally picked two tests where it would be obvious to see the difficulty difference.
Did you know that the % of people who fail their driving test is higher than the % of people who fail their Bar exam?
With warrior’s being such an obviously overtuned tank right now, you’re going to get a lot of driving test takers who jumped on the bandwagon to play this class.
With how rough it is to play guardian druids right now, you’re more likely to have the hardheaded people who really love the class still playing guardian druids. They don’t care that they have to take the bar exam to play the class, they’re still going to do it.
Do you see why just comparing the % completion rate at +20 between tanks is a bad metric?
Frost DK has .04% representation for +20s and only a 3% representation for unholy I dont see them complaining half as much as druids. DK is represented pretty well because the tank spec makes up for it. For us druids Resto druid is the meta and represents over 30% of the healers for +20. Overall when you factor in all the specs druid is represented well in mythic 20s and you would most likely have to nerf resto before you buff up guardian to increase their numbers.
So you are thinking druids should be the top healer represented as well as the top tank? There are no other classes that have a meta for more than one spec
And this proves a total of nothing and makes a total of zero counterarguments. Also it invalidates zero posts so far.
Your argument here is that since others are not complaining there is no problem, it is a fallacy.
Yes, that is totally what I said. I said that Druids needs to be gods of Warcraft, they need also to explode the servers as soon as they log in. And every other class need to be forced to /bow at druids else they’re kicked out of the game. Actually they got to be banned.
Yeah, that is what I said. Totally. You’re not trolling, at all.
No my argument is that when it comes to WOW overall class balance comes before individual spec balance and its unreasonable to expect a class with 4 talent trees to be above average or meta in all of them. One of their trees is going to lag behind to balance the class with the others, likely druid tank is weak right now by design because heal is so strong
The data start will all tanks even warriors just doing a 2 so yes the data can be relevant. Having to take all defensive build at expense of dps. Having too many multi point nodes, having irrelevant nodes and of course continued bugs all play a role. My point is bears are not in a good spot. My healers cant take time to do extra dps on trash pulls because we can get destroyed quickly due to lack of mitigation. Our Mastery nerf from before needs to be reverted etc. There are just too many problems right now. Can bears tank, yes but every other tank right now is better off than bears by a good margin. I am disappointed as for example brew right now seems to have had most of its problems fixed in a single patch and guardians were made objectively worse.
Well to illustrate my point more about his not everyone is trying to push keys with their class, DHs dropped nearly 75% going from 15s to 20s whereas Druids only dropped 80% (of the 15s census).
That is the second time you have used that term strawman and incorrectly. You are talking about representation in 20s and just ignoring the fact that druids are one of the most represented classes in the game, just not your spec of choice.
You do realized that there are 24 dps specs and a normalized average representation would be 4% right? So a 3% representation is just 25% below average.
There are only 6 tanks and a normalized average representation would be 16%. Druids are at 7%, that’s almost 60% below average.
Surely you see the difference?
And before you talk about Frost’s 0.04%, it’s one melee dps spec option out of two for the class. Having arms be at 0.04% representation while fury is at 3% is not as egregious as having the only tank spec of a class be this abysmally represented. Especially since normally when there is a representation discrepancy like this between two melee dps specs of a class, that usually just means one is a pve spec and the other is a pvp spec.
LMAO well at least you acknowledged that bear is under performing, the difference between you and Grizzle is that you don’t care and you believe we DESERVE to be very bad tanks since we’re good healers, while Grizzle is just a troll or a very delusional person who still wants to argue numbers and say everything is fine.
What I am saying is that the low bear tank representation in 20s might be by design to offset the healer meta, otherwise it would be a god class. Likely if holy paladin was the meta it would be prot pally complaining about the drop off in representation at 20s
EDIT: you cant ignore that as the difficulty increases in mythics, group composition becomes more important and two druids is redundant.
10% margin at the highest point. 1.5% at the lowest point. As far as balancing goes…that’s good for Blizzard lol.
The real issue is people expecting balance past a level that Blizzard balances at. Blizzard doesn’t balance at the ego play level. Doesn’t mean Bears can’t get some attention that will help at ego level play, but it’s not where they look when they want to apply buffs
My usage of the term strawman is perfect. The straw man fallacy is very often referred just as “strawman”, and it refers when you reply something that no one said and use it as an argument. That is precisely what you’re doing, since you said that:
Guess what, no one said that we want 4 talent trees to be above average.
Again, no one said that we want to be the top tank.
Do you see where you have used strawman already, or do I need to paint it to you?
LOL who am I kidding, you obviously will not admit your own fallacy, never… That is just not a thing you would do.