I’ve been frustrated with this spec for a while now. I want to keep pushing high keys but I keep getting let down by the lack of… everything this tank has compared to the better tanks. We need a rework, one that gives us better utility, talent options that change our gameplay. It is especially not helping when I am absolutely gimped by the lack of the legendary and lack of a BiS trinket which is on the topic of a more broad problem which is waiting months just to play the game.
I made a VDH and it is unbelievably more fun and I hope they balance the lesser tanks around this and I don’t feel like I’m screwing my team by playing this class.
You’re being fairly vague here… Outside of the lack of “gear”, what seems to be your issue? I don’t have any issues pushing higher keys as BDK, it’s just not an “alt friendly” tank, you either main it, or do your 18-20’s for the week and call it. VDH is just more approachable because the mistakes aren’t as punishing. It’s generally how tanks are balanced; Warriors in S1 just didn’t take damage, BDK took all the damage, but healed through it making healers feel useless. VDH and PP were mid specs because they didn’t really do much different; then S2 PP took off, because it’s just that useful. Having all the team utility and being able to heal your team mates as a bonus. Still has it, but it’s not mechanically as smooth as VDH. What BDK lacks in team utility and buffs, it makes up for with manipulation of the battlefield; you have access to an AoE blind, 2 DG’s, Gorefiend’s, Asphixiate, DnD slow, Abom Limb, Control Undead, and a very powerful Team CD in AMZ.
Arguably, you may be having difficulty because you’re looking at it from a VDH perspective while playing BDK which is very, very different.
I think this actually comes more down to you not having the sufficient background information in relation to who
is in terms of the DK Mythic+ Blood DK Community and why a post like as vague as this is makes a whole lot more sense if you know more around the history etc.
What I will say is the Voide has been one of the very few Blood DK’s that have been attempting to push the highest level keys in mythic+ and is an individual that quite often is one of the highest rank Blood DK’s in Mythic+ season after season when it comes to highest key level completed. If you took the time to look at his profile you’d see his lowest level Mythic+ is a 26 with several of them being a 28.
So he would be someone that would have a far amount of experience and knowledge on what it takes for a Blood DK to complete higher level keys as well as the class problems and issues that would preclude them from doing higher level keys that other tanks are doing without having to micromanage their gear to be BiS+++ just to squeeze that little bit more so they the Blood DK can do the higher key that a VDH, Paladin, or Monks have all been able to complete without the the full on niche reliance on needing specific BIS gear at the highest possible ilvl available to even have the remote chance of doing it.
While what you replied does make sense you’re not really saying anything that Voide wouldn’t already be aware of and while you say to do your 18 - 20s each week that isn’t the type of player Voide has been for a very long time and he is a person that is respected by many in the DK community because of his accomplishments and achievements in Mythic+ Seasons, the Great Push, and MDI time and again as a blood DK.
Ya its like playing a different game on my prot pally. Blood is fun but its just such a junk tank. My 460 prot pally went right into a 25 and everything felt trivial. At least give blood a way to start a pull thats on a 1 min or less cd, something akin to toll or rage of the sleeper.
Everything I’ve seen and heard suggests that the Legendary isn’t actually that good, so I wouldn’t expect any big improvements if / when you eventually get it.
I’m just 3k, no where near where Voìde is but I understand where they are coming from. I think BDK needs a talent tree touch up or making some abilities in the tree baseline for BDK. Gorefiend grasp for instance is in a poor spot in the tree and you can’t exactly take it without sacrificing alot. Bonestorm is an absolute dead talent, and even taking Asphix is a little difficult with it competing with talents, and control undead is fairly situational.
We have access to these tools, but we don’t really have ‘access’ to them if that makes sense. I personally would like to see gorefiend as baseline personally, it’s been such a staple in past expansions it doesn’t feel super great that theres not really a situation i would take it over red thirst, shattering bone…tomestone ectect. I can be corrected by people better than me at bdk but that’s just my humble opinion on where the spec is.
Yes there will always be those Meta classes but BDK hasn’t been in the Meta club for a long time…and you need to ask why that is? Once you answer that it lays out a much larger and consistent ongoing problem that isn’t being fixed and until that is done it prevent DK from being in the Meta club.
Who do we constantly see in the meta club at one point or another in expansions and seasons time and again - Prot Warriors, Prot Paladins, VDH and Brewmasters what don’t we see BDK and Guardian Druids (though they did have a somewhat good meta run in some seasons at one time over the last couple of year).
BDK has not been meta at any time over the last four expansions unless there was some gimmick in game thing that made something absolutely ridiculous for them. In which case they were meta for as long as it took blizzard to nerf that aspect. So DK’s needed something that changed something to became so unbalanced it had to be nerfed.
What is the underlying issue that it contributing to this issue and why BDK will never be meta as long as this isn’t actually dealt with? It comes down to issues around Core Class Design, Poor Talent Design and Tree layouts etc. The core class design creates a balancing and tuning nightmare for Blizzard…If they give BDK too much healing and damage throughput they become unkillable gods. However, if they reduce damage it also impacts survivability because of the tie in to healing etc. The problem is Blizzard struggles to balance a class that requires to take hits to maximise self healing and when they have higher damage throughput they create absorb shields that are never depleted etc. Blizzard created their own worst balancing nightmare and they are struggling to figure out a way to deal with it. As a small change to one aspect can make disproportionate and a much higher inflated one in another area much too easily for BDK vs Block Tanks or Dodge/Avoid Tanks.
And there you go. BDK is a hard spec to balance for competitive M+ content. Maybe only with a rework, but then if you go too heavy on it you risk annoying the playerbase that are just playing the game, not competing.
Look, I not even near to be competitive at WoW but I know something about it in games in general.
Now, you can love BDK and want to be the best with it, you can also want to be at the top of the world. The thing is, in competitive scenarios, both is not always possible.
Do you know what I mean by this right? Is not an attack or anything, is just that competetive players go and do what they must to be at the top. That’s not just a WoW thing, there are some champion in League that not appear that much in championships, for instance.
It is valid to ask for a rework for the spec that you love to be viable in competetive gaming, sure…
But you knew that BDK wasn’t that meta, and now you want to compete with it and be at the top but you’re getting frustrated cause is harder for you. Like, c’mon what are you doing?
honestly no but it would be nice to just be meta relevant for at least two seasons out of the four of five that you have during an expansion. I mean why can’t you let DK’s have their day in a meta where an item or ingame system can be leveraged well enough to make it broken for DK’s but anytime this happens they come in and remove it. It wouldn’t be so bad if they can’t fix the class to just say you know what lets leave this broken mechanic here for DK’s because we will ensure it won’t work next season but this one sure let them have some fun. That is never gonna happen though either.
Every time I’ve tried to get into bdk, I absolutely love how it feels and plays and have a blast but as a healer main I can’t stand not bringing any real useful utility or carry power to a group. I have decent stopping power but that’s it.
Bdk just feels exactly like prot pally to me, except I bring insane externals and off healing with paladin while still being immortal and doing great damage and really strong cc/int/stops.
Then you see VDH that has completely taken over BDK’s niche in mob control and herding to an extreme level while also just being a less risky BDK with more mobility and does a ton of damage still and it’s just like what’s the point?
I want BDK to be able to sacrifice their health to off heal, for when the BDK doesn’t need to survive themselves. And I want their mob herding to be a lot stronger.
Been enjoying the hell out of my VDH off and on this entire expansion for that reason. It only got better with 10.2 or whenever the minor rework was, and despite initially wanting to reroll to Rogue I’m actually enjoying tanking again with this, lol. Kinda sad, but that’s where we’re at.
I’ve been playing BDK more and more recently in M+ because that’s the only way I can get into pug groups as a DK anymore since DPS DK is so bad right now, and the more I play it, the more and more I see the issues that other BDK’s have with it. Now I am no where near the same lvl as Voide, but I’ve still been seeing these issues in 18 and 19 keys which are my average key lvls right now, the lack of utility being the most noticeable part compared to other tanks. I’ve just started playing a VDH because of how good I’ve heard them being, and my god, I cannot believe the amount of utility and control that tank has.
I’m praying they rework DK as a class and each DK spec going into war within, but after seeing the San’layn talent tree, I have very little hope that anything is going to change.
U dont take majority of those “manipulation” talents… so calling them useful is far out there. The only thing u take reliably is sleet and abom. And those both have very long cds to consider them “amazing” utility. And death grips arent a plus. They help sure, but many classes have a movement displacement among other group utilities like stuns pushbacks knockups and silences…
Same issue, but at least i got my legendary previous week. The damage output is really nice, i am doing great numbers, but… Everything else… I fell so pathethic in Everbloom, in ToD , when i see a bunch of casters and i can’t do sh*t to help my party, miserable feeling. At least AMZ is kind of good this season but overall it’s been 3 seasons my friend and this talent tree recieved 0 changes. Give us some utility , anything , any raid buff, any group healing, more mass cc , 2 interrupt charges, literally anything, Just a small consolation prize at least.
I have made a topic about BDK being a troll pick compared to other tanks but most of the players feel like BDK is in very good shape. Well, if that’s a common opinion nothing will ever change.
Agree. Somethings should just be baseline. Biggest offender for dk in general, is having gorefiends grasp a talent for blood. It should just be baseline for all dks
Agreed, idk why they are so afraid to give DPS DK a reliable mass grip when they keep pushing that grip is DK’s “raid buff”. I know DPS DK has abom limb but you are sacrificing quite a bit of dmg by taking that on ST or a lot of AoE dmg if you have to save it. Which could have been ok if there weren’t other classes like DH or lock that sacrifice almost no dmg to get incredible utility. There’s a few classes right now that have to sacrifice entirely to much just to get an AoE stop or even ST stop.
