Any support for adding the BC content to Classic, but it’ll come without a reset, i.e. the first tier of BC will come after Naxx progression?
9 Likes
Likely, it won’t be “added” to Classic, but instead it will be put on entirely different servers, so people who want “Classic Only” won’t have to lose what they wanted.
18 Likes
Imagine a Classic world that is not made obsolete by BC content and classes. That is how BC should have been released imo. A content update, with side grade and/or minor upgrade raids would fill out the Classic world into a near perfect game. The largest problems with such a design are:
- Zone level and gear tuning
- Raid gear tuning
- Raid size adjustments
- Flying
- Talent points
- a feeling of progression without making Classic content obsolete
- Alterac Valley was an abomination by the end of TBC.
- Arena
Here are my proposed solutions (just spitballing here):
-
Zone level and gear tuning: Change the level of TBC zones to the following:
a. Hellfire Peninsula — Level 55-56.
b. Zangarmarsh — Level 56-57.
c. Terokkar Forest — Level 57-58.
d. Nagrand — Level 59-60.
e. Blade’s Edge Mountains — Level 59-60
f. Netherstorm — Level 60 pre-BIS gear
g. Shadowmoon Valley — Level 60 pre-BIS gear -
Raid gear tuning: Change Raids to the following tier equivalent:
a. Karazhan — 10 man tier 2.0
b. Zul’Aman — 10 man tier 2.0
c. Gruul’s Lair — 25 man tier 2.5
d. Magtheridon’s Lair – 25 man tier 2.5
e. Serpentshrine Cavern — 25 man tier 3.0
f. The Eye (Tempest Keep) — 25 man tier 3.0
g. Battle for Mount Hyjal — 25 man tier 3.5
h. The Black Temple — 25 man tier 3.5
i. Sunwell Plateau — 25 man tier 4.0 - Raid size adjustments: Change Classic raids from 20/40 man to 10/25 man and tune raids accordingly. Note that with 2.0 classes these raids might be easier, so tuning would require several considerations. Overall difficulty should remain similar.
- Flying should be removed and teleporters/gondolas/flying mounts for ghosts at select Spirit Res spots, etc. put in to cover those places that required flying.
-
Talent points: I have two thoughts on this. Either:
a. Have talent points start at 1.
b. Get talent points by completing TBC zones. -
Progression: The tier gear from raids would not necessarily be an upgrade in many cases. It would instead be alternate paths, but with reasons to go to all raids of a certain tier. For example:
a. The tier increases should not be substantial ilvl increases. 4-6 ilvls between half tiers would be good. So for instance, BT gear would be average of 5 ilvls greater than Naxx/SCC gear, so around 88 to 93 max, and Sunwell gear would be 5 ilvls higher than that, so 93 to 98 max.
b. What invites players to do these “side grade” raids is the set bonuses, or other interesting effects. TBC had some great set bonuses and gear. It also had some gem slots, though adjustments would have to be made to account for that to not make Classic content obsolete. - Alterac Valley: Remove AV token requirements from gear. Keep Classic AV.
- Arena hadn’t become the cancer it would later become because classes were not yet “balanced” around 3v3 as of this time. Overall arena was fine, maybe even great. However, it took away from the richness of larger group PvP. I would therefore like to see the addition of RBGs as an alternative path to gear and titles as it is today.
TL;DR. TBC improved upon Classic so much, with only a few things added that hurt the game (at that time). With those things addressed, a TBC focused “Classic+” would make an amazing game. I am not suggesting such a thing to replace Classic servers, but as an alternate server group. With possible character transfers from Classic servers I think this would reinvigorate WoW just as much as the current Classic is doing and will provide an even better, and longer lasting game experience.
25 Likes
I wasn’t a fan of TBC, but I like the way this ^ sounds. (mostly)
3 Likes
LOL You can sit there and make all the excuses you want about how “badly” you guys want this Classic+, but the harsh reality is YOU PEOPLE were the ones who were behind the Wall of NO threads that didn’t want Classic IN THE FIRST PLACE.
You people are only trying to ask for this “extra content” as a way to sabotage the Classic project because you know damned well that Ion and his goonsquad would never be able to deliver content in the old vanilla style and actually get it right.
The devs KNOW this which is why they aren’t taking the bait and offered TBC up instead. That’s what we are getting if anything is TBC and maybe Wrath but that’s it. That being said…I’m going to be like you guys were a few years back and say
NO
Regarding removal of flight for TBC and later Wrath if it gets released I say:
#Nochanges
It works both ways. Everyone wanted Classic AS IT WAS…Warts and all. Same goes for TBC. No matter how many of you people are clamoring for the removal of flight from TBC/Wrath when they come out, there are a whole lot MORE who will rage if it’s not there. The vocal minority can’t have their way without causing a major $hitstorm. Look at what happened when they tried that crap back in WoD. Remember what happened? I do. Hundreds of thousands of people lashed out on the forums and then ragequit and left for FF14 because they put out Heavensward which had a nifty new feature called…FLYING
And what was the result of that massive exodus of players?? Ion was FORCED to put flying back into the game, but he did it like a petulant child and added Pathfinder to the requirements and he’s been tormenting us with it ever since with massively long timegates and asinine rep grinds through WQs
Blizzard won’t let him get away with removal of flight from the old expansions even if he wanted to or tried
12 Likes
imagine going back to your 2006 self and telling him… yeah TBC is a new xpac but you’re going to stay level 60.
4 Likes
Sounds awful.
No thanks, hard pass.
TBC no changes except the patch that nerfed heroics.
8 Likes
Absolutely not. If they release TBC servers at some point in the future…
#nochanges
8 Likes
I would have loved it. I hated that all my hard earned stuff was made obsolete. I thought it was the worst aspect of TBC. Increasing the level never felt good to me; not in any expansion. It was designed obsolescence, which I felt was foolish design. What I loved most about TBC was the class changes. It really fleshed out the classes across the board. Those changes did not have to come with a level increase.
Gear does not have to be massively better to feel rewarding. In fact I think that BfA has proven that large ilvl increases makes gear feel substantially less rewarding. The truth is, it only needs to be the tiniest bit better to maximize the feeling of reward. It gives the gear you get lasting power, while still having something to shoot for. Such minor increases can be an ilvl increase or a better effect/set bonus, etc.
3 Likes
This fool wants to remove Flying Mounts from BC.
NO, just no.
7 Likes
NO! Stupid idea is stupid.
3 Likes
Ignore that fool. If Blizzard is smart they won’t do forced progression and keep TBC as a separate client with it’s own set of servers like Classic
3 Likes
They need to stay separate or I wouldn’t play. I would want all my gains 1-60 to stay there and likewise BC @70. Changing these games ruins the reason for even bringing them back in the first place.
7 Likes
Nothing could be further from the truth. I have always been a major advocate of Classic. The current game is an abomination. It has lost its soul. However, knowing that Classic is a far superior game doesn’t blind me to the fact that it was also flawed. Many people (not all) are “no changes” not because they think it was the perfect game, but because they don’t trust Blizzard to build upon Classic to make a better game. Most are afraid that any attempt to “improve it” would ruin whatever magic formula made it the great game it was. It is however ludicrous to think that such a thing is actually impossible.
I don’t trust Ion as far as I can throw him. However, I am not speaking directly to him, I am speaking to those that truly appreciate the superior game that is Classic. It is those people that I want to invite to think outside the box. I think a conversation about this topic could actually bring about a consensus, which if it was the largest influence of such a design, could bring about something truly great. Am I an idealist? Sure, but if it doesn’t work out there’s still Classic, and nothing will change that so what is the harm?
It works both ways for whom? I am trying to have a conversation. I was never a “no changes” person. Having said that, I do appreciate the reasons such a movement started. Classic is a magical game, and it is better to have some magic than none at all. But again, that doesn’t mean that a more magical game can’t be created.
1 Like
Then you would be the exception not the rule. The vast majority of people who started this whole Classic+ hoopla were the same people who spent years writing up threads and banding together to appeal to Blizzard to never make a vanilla legacy server
Something we can agree on. Awesome
This is assuming that they don’t overwrite Classic with this proposed Classic+ content you’re advocating for. What happens when the vast majority of the players who came back and resubbed for Classic view this new content as an abomination and then quit again? The result is Classic is ruined because of a failed experiment that was asked for by a small number of people that the rest never wanted.
I can definitely understand where you’re coming from on this, since once Naxx is on farm and everyone has their full T3 and BiS gear and all the items/gold they want, what else is there to do? The problem with this, is that we don’t have the same people at Blizzard that we did in the beginning. This is ActiBlizz and the actions they take are dictated by what will profit them the most. This new content you guys want is really only going to appeal to a very small amount of players and is therefore a niche market. TBC on the other hand is a much better alternative for them, because of how successful it was the first time around
1 Like
Again, I’m not worried about this because I am not speaking to them. I am speaking to the community of players with hopes to open up a conversation and come to a consensus about where this project can go in the future. We both agree it should go somewhere.
They built Classic based purely on community feedback. We got #noChanges ONLY because the community consensus pushed it in that direction. They asked us what we wanted. The majority wanted this. That gives me a lot of hope for a community driven next step.
You could say “it’s too soon, Classic hasn’t even launched yet,” and I kinda agree, but then again, Naxx will be on farm within two years. Development would have to start soonish.
This is an assumption, nothing more. Let’s have a conversation, point by point and see if there is any truth to this in consensus.
I suggest it could have been even more successful if it hadn’t made the Classic world obsolete. This is the direction I am pushing for.
1 Like
Im not sure how it would work with the zones set for the levels you suggested, and i hate flying in world pvp but netherstorm would suck.
It’s a pretty obvious solution.
If you don’t want flying then do not play TBC, don’t try to change or redesign massive parts of it and ruin it for the people that want it to be #nochanges just like Classic is.
You got your museum piece with Classic and there’s many that want the same with TBC.
2 Likes
Thats my hope. Leave some servers as Classic Only, and just allow Copy (not Transfer) to TBC Servers.
1 Like
^ This. Aside from all the points I listed off as to why the removal of flight is a bad idea there is this to contend with. Lots of the terrain in Outlands and Northrend is completely impassible without the ability to fly. Tempest Keep, The Mechanar, Arcatraz, Gruul’s Lair etc. also can’t be accessed without flying. And no adding more FPs isn’t gonna cut it. What happens when you die by falling off of a cliff somewhere and can’t reach your body? Take a spirit rez and be forced to wait 10 minutes to start questing again? It’s a horrible idea and nobody outside of the hardcore wpvp fans will want this
2 Likes