The bottom line is GDKP cannot be allowed before botting/gold selling is under control. Which it is not, and likely never will be. I’m ok with allowing GDKP on stale era servers that are months past Naxx, so long as GDKP only opens on them the day a new era server comes out.
There should always be a GDKP free server (with it’s own battlegroup) available.
Yes.
Your statement is a red herring fallacy.
-A red herring fallacy is a distraction tactic that shifts attention away from the main topic to an irrelevant one-
That’s a steep claim.
Do you have any tangible evidence that this claim is true? If not, it’s nothing more than a claim
What is your proposed solution to selling/gold buying being trafficked thru the auction house? I would think a staunch anti rmt players such as yourself would be ok with that giant RMT ship being banned yes?
There was a post earlier here that suggested removing the AH to help control gold buying and selling. I think that’s an extremely strong talking point.
I happen to agree, as was said if anti gdkp players want gdkps removed “because it is an avenue that promotes gold buying” then the auction house is just as guilty
So I’m with that dude. Are you for removing the AH? Or was it actually not about rmt you care about?
The problem with that is the AH doesn’t sell the best items in the game for the most part. The amount of gold that will be bought for the AH is a molehill compared to the astronomical level of gold imparted by GDKP. I cannot prove this, but it’s a reasonably logical deduction that buying the best items in the game, in a setting of unlimited caps on ever inflating gold prices, obliterates the AH potential for the same dynamic. The two aren’t even in the same solar system.
GDKP seeks to bypass the ban on BoP sales. Therein lies the problem. BoPs are BoPs because of the insane demand they bring. And insane demand brings insane prices.
Adding to this, the AH can’t become a prerequisite in the culture of pugging. GDKP replaces the meta because it’s the path of least resistance. That loop results in everyone having to buy gold to keep up with prices, or have bought gold funneled to them through pots. It’s bad design.
It’s not an empirical claim, it’s a logical fact. Don’t hurt your head on it.
Edgemasters Handguards
Lionheart helm
Crusader Enchant
Flask of supreme power
Flask of distilled wisdom
I could go on
Do you have any real proof of that, other than just saying it?
I’m here to let you know I don’t even run gdkps, I’m having a real conversation here
The only demand being made are how wanted an item is demanded in the market
Do you think anyone is going in mc wanting to buy that polearm or the 2h mace, no
Demand is created by players only. Half of the items in naxx aren’t even in demand in gdkps
The basic economic fundamental of high demand bringing in high prices. BoPs are BoPs because they are really good. GDKP sidesteps the design of BoPs not being for sale, so it needs to be fixed.
No, demand is created by math in a game where bis is mathematical. The best items in the game aren’t designed to be sold, and it should be enforced this way when players find a way to sidestep this.
By all means, have GDKP, and a bot paradise, on old era servers past Naxx. But there should always be a fresh server going with no GDKP.
There are tons of BOPs that nobody ever buys… because they are not good. So This is False Equivalency
I don’t really see a problem. Edgemasters hand guards get sold for 10 thousand gold all the time.
Rigut, so edgemasters (a boe) is better than almost every other BOP in the game.
So, season of discovery? With no gdkps?
I don’t care if they launch a no gdkp server, but I expect it to be the “chaos bolt” server of this run
Right, but I didn’t say all BoPs are in high demand. I just said the items of the hightest demand happen to be BoPs. And BoPs aren’t supposed to be sold, that’s why they are BoP. Side stepping this is something Blizzard should do away with because of the byproducts of letting it flourish. Them being an unending feedback loop of gold buying/funneling to keep up with pug meta – which becomes exclusively GDPK because it’s the path of least resistance.
The only question is if Blizzard cares about the integrity of their game or not.
So, the goalpost moves from “bops are bops because they’re really good” to now not all bops are good, basically dismissing your first claim.
Because the item isn’t supposed to be earned outside of the location it drops to create scarcity. That’s how BOP works in all games. Wether you loot the item in raid with a loot council or any other loot system makes no difference as the act of killing the boss is the requirement
I think sod players showed they don’t care about game integrity
And a group dividing their loot by gold is theoretically sound. The problem, however, is that such a system cannot exist properly in a situation where Blizzard doesn’t have a handle on gold buying/botting. Until they get a handle on that, they need to make sure BoPs aren’t sold. Because the moment that is allowed, then these group form AROUND that. That is, they are created for the sole purpose of selling the best items in the game. Which not only breaks the spirit of BoPs, but results in the game destroying byproducts listed above.
That said, I think it’s reasonable to come to a middle ground on GDKP and disallow it on fresh servers, but allow it on older era servers since GDKP is a thriving business. It will grant Blizzard more money, and those who depend on selling gold for a living. P2W players will have their outlet, and all involved will be happy. Win with for anyone who would want to participate on such a server.
Just have the latest server stay true to the spirit of vanilla design. Which is BoPs being unsellable.
Then why not ban the auction house too? You can’t have your cake and eat it too brother
Here is the definition of bind on pickup
** “Binds when picked up” means it becomes soul bound as soon as you loot it . soul bound means it’s bound to that character, you can’t give it to someone else or put it in the auction house **
There is no mention of it being in place for any reason other than to bind to that boss and character to create scarcity
I will do this if you agree to match the same time frame with the auction house ban. I think the poster who proposed this mades a rock solid argument that destroys the gdkp nonsense dead in its tracks
It’s perhaps the strongest argument I’ve ever seen actually, because it points on the hypocrisy of anti gdkp players claiming it’s “for integrity of combatting rmt” when the auction house is a black hole of rmt. If you argue semantics for it, you deny one’s own claim that your motives are to “end the avenues that promote gold buying
The way I see it is these people agree to band the AH or be exposed for hypocrisy
Ironman server actually sounds cool.
Edit. Imagine the world PvP. Dude, you saved WoW.
They did that in retail. Did that stop people from buying gold?
Pretty sure people bought more gold and went to armor-type stacked carry runs.
Hey there foolish anti GDKP folk… I’ve come to add my 2 cents…
-Im a day 1 WoW player from 2004
-I became a hardcore raider and was one of the few guilds to do naxx then
-our guild (Forgotten Heroes) got world first kill on Maexxna
I burned out towards the end of vanilla and became a super casual for all future expansions…
Let me tell you the reality of how it was then before we ever heard of GDKP…
by the time AQ40 came out it became a chore to get people to do MC raids… by the time Naxx was out… no one could form a ZG or AQ20 raid…
People only wanted to do raids where they had an incentive (either with items they needed, or with earning DKP)
Since our DKP was individual to each raid once you had you gear from a raid there was no incentive to ever return.
This lead to a big problem for the guild by the time we got to naxx. People began to get burned out and needed breaks, which hurt our ability to advance in naxx.
So now what do we do? We recruit new people but then we need to gear them up in MC, BWL, AQ40 etc… but the whole team on naxx doesnt want to do those raids anymore…
in the end we fail to replace lost members and we then fail to progress in the current content…
HUMANS ARE COMPLETELY RUN OFF OD INCENTIVE!!!
Now along comes 2019 Classic…
I’m still my casual self and I casually make my way to endgame raiding over time. Its now 2024 and im STILL playing these characters today all thanks to GDKP keeping ALL THE RAIDS active.
Keep in mind ive bought 0 gold as well…
I literally stopped playing for a year in there with my two 60’s in a mix of MC and BWL gear. I return a year later and ALL OF MY PROGRESS STILL HOLDS VALUE RIGHT WHERE I LEFT OFF!
I’m now playing some more and enjoying continuing to advance my character in a casual manner through time as I see fit.
AND ITS ALL THANKS TO THE GDKP SYSTEM KEEPING EVERY RAID ACTIVE DUE TO ITS INCENTIVIZING GEARED PLAYERS TO STILL RUN IT!
The incentive is RMT, since many people on Whitemane are from outside the US and are paying rent by raiding on 5 characters. RLs are making $200 per Naxx and they do 5 a week.
If the players are geared, why are they raiding? You’ll say alts, but obviously those alts could just run the raid themselves - so there’s no reason to think MC would be dead, it just wouldn’t be full of 25 naxx-geared warriors.
Additionally, there is BIS in every raid and most of those naxx-geared toons are actually there to buy 1-2 specific items. They are there for the same reason as everyone else - they just need less items or they need items on another characters which could have just done the raid itself.
Your guild didn’t fail because of a lack of RMT-DKP raiding.
And you were too thick to figure out the solution was to have the DKP go across all the raids? I’ve suggested a universal PUG DKP system many times that can be transferred one-way into gold to buy consumes. All RMT-DKPers vehemently loathe it because they can’t pay their rent with it.
I was there 3000 years ago…
This is a fantasyland thought
good luck getting new recruits in a guild with stacked DKP counts that count for all raids! 
Lmfao. You mean like with GDKP? LMFAO