No, Saurfang thinks burning Teldrassil was wrong but agreed to conquering all NE territory. The Horde has always coveted Ashenvale and it’s resources and we now have it. Baine giving it away is a ***** move.
And de-militarize Arathi? And allow Stromgarde to militarize it? Same thing as giving it to the Alliance.
The Alliance want Lordaeron back but it rightfully belongs to it’s people, which some are Forsaken and others are Humans. The Alliance will negotiate to have it back under their control.
The Alliance have already built fortifications in S. Barrens. The fact that Baine has not made any attempt to remove them is pathetic.
Because the factions had an upcoming war, and Saurfang wanted to win it. The war ended up happening, but was immoral.
But… if the factions are at peace… trading exists right?
Based off an assumption. Anduin isn’t the kind of person to go to war against a peaceful faction.
Lordaeron belongs to the people of Lordaeron. Dead and ALIVE alike. Maybe you forgot there were survivors. Also, Anduin doesn’t want Lordaeron. He only attacked it so he could then control most of the Eastern Kingdoms.
Baine is not Warchief last I checked. He doesn’t decide this stuff. Though if you pay attention to your command table, there are troops being sent there to attack those forts.
Yea, Saurfang agreed to War and we won Ashenvale and Darkshore. It belongs to us. Trading is goods and services, not entire swathes of land and what is the Horde getting if they “trade” Ashenvale and Darkshore? Oh, I know, the right to live.
Anduin isn’t Stromgarde. Stromgarde is an extremely militant human kingdom. They will fortify and defend Arathi if the Horde allow it putting the Horde in a vulnerable position entirely at the mercy of the Alliance.
And Anduin does want Lordaeron… you just said it. He wants it under Alliance control so they can control the EK.
Southern Barrens is Tauren territory and he lost it and failed to take it back. Now the Alliance have fortified it and will continue to do so especially if he becomes Warchief as he will allow them to.
That’s the whole point that you’re not getting. Peace comes at the cost of the Horde’s free will and independence. Peace causes the Horde to be reliant and servile to the Alliance.
What’s interesting is reading these comments like there is some actual kind of war where there is an actual chance of one side winning. People taking it so seriously. Actually thinking how a fictional character is written decides how effective he is as a leader.
If either side “wins” WoW is done. Game over man, game over.
Just like Tyrande can be written as one of the most powerful people on Azeroth, get a powerup from her goddess yet barely able to beat an undead human archer whose greatest claim to fame was being as good as an elf.
Baine could easily be written to being the most brilliant strategist on Azeroth tomorrow.
At the very least, he would guitar slide into Frostmourne.
He asked to do it during the funeral of King Rasta.
He asked for the Horde to enter into negotiations with the Alliance, at a point in the war where both sides agree the Alliance is winning on every front, and they are tightening their grip. Right after they raided and killed a Horde aligned leader.
The only negotiations possible when you have no leverage in a war you are losing is “surrender”.
The Horde did not surrender after MoP to my knowledge. It ended in a truce, a ceasefire, before things erupted again later on down the road.
Negotiations are not a bad idea given that the Horde has literally NOTHING going for it this entire expansion.
They have NO navy, they lost darkshore, they instigated a fight against the alliance when long term they have no method of winning it.
It sounds to me that Baine is the only one not allowing pride to get in the way of negotiating a truce, which is not a surrender.
He does have military victories, simply because he isn’t another Grommash, Nathanos, or Sylvanas does not mean he would be a weak leader.
I am not talking about MoP. I am talking about BFA.
The only negotiations possible when you are losing every aspect of a war, is surrender. Else what does the other side gain? Why should they go back to the status quo, if they are about to wipe you off the map?
The only negotiations possible for the Horde, after the death of King Rastakhan, would be to surrender to the Alliance.
Baine wanted negotiations.
BFA is an active war of Horde vs Alliance. MoP wasn’t exactly.
You stated he requested a surrender which he has not. Cutting your losses in a truce isn’t a surrender. Surrender means you lose EVERYTHING, just like Japan and Germany did at the end of WW2.
MoP was an active war between the Horde and Alliance, it is inaccurate to term ir otherwise. The alliance has no desire for war, they would desire the status quo which is the return of darkshore. The Horde are already beginning a change of leadership, so things would not be changing back.
You do know, your outlook on this whole argument says a LOT more about you than the story right?
If you consider Honor stupid, truces stupid, you really are not a goblin. You need to be Forsaken.
War is never good for either side, unless unconditional victory can be had with minimal losses. Constant war destroys entire people. As Horde, you should know you history - it was war that almost wiped out the Tauren, the Orcs and the Trolls.
I consider Baine and Sourfang’s hypocritical and mutilated version of honor stupid.
I consider any Alliance leader willing to just pack up and go home, with a Truce, stupid. When they are literally winning on every front (at the time), and just successfully lead a raid which took out a major Horde aligned leader.
They would be stupid to say at that point “Ok, Truce. We are friends now. Everyone back to your own territory”.
Thats what WoW is though. The Alliance is stronger, but written to look weaker. We win, but because we can never win, we say it if happens again we will end you. Than it happens again and we go home.
Because neither side can ever win. Its why a truce WILL happen
