I’m worry too because this would be the most financially cheap type of game to run.
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Well they are def going about it in a weird way then consistently making new open world areas, questlines, events, rares, treasures, profressions, etc etc etc
There really are only 4 or 5 relevant Zaralack shards, may as well instance the whole zone and make ppl queue for it lol. (super sarcasm) here.
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I don’t think anyone even sells Normal carries.
Weird cause you def buy them
No I’d go for Heroic cause I like red better.
Though you would know that if you knew me.
I think we can all agree that S2 world content is woefully overtuned and they made it even grosser this season for ppl wearing 411 gear. Which it shouldn’t be.
Also those who are wearing 437-441 in open world pvp this is just disgusting in warmode lol. Especially as a fresh 70 with a smattering of honor gear. — put everyone in warmode at 431 
up in this thread i meantioned pvp stats for world gear instead of relying on vers (keep vers for pvE) to segment ppl who warmode into gear that matches them up better while still offering that world progression feeling because in pvp the pvp stats will matter
penetration - flat dmg multiplier
deflection - flat mitigation multiplier
you can get a combined total of 500%
someone in 411 gear with pvp stats is going to be at an advantage to ppl wearing mythic raid purples in open world warmode, but not in the mythic raiding gear progression track
Yes
This is runs completely counter to every thread you post. You aren’t seeking a deeper understanding, nor are you interested in a common ground.
Your entire interest is bemoaning your completely, entirely self inflicted status as a “solo player” and pretending to be entitled to things that you aren’t.
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Also slightly off tangent – it’s clear they are pushing players and design more towards the gambling simulator - D:I D:3 D:4 are clearly the games blizz wants to make and they seem to struggle making wow now.
Aww jeez lil dude i like red too!!! I guess its time to start buying heroic carries instead of normal, im sure blizzard will be happy on top of giving them a monthly sub to let them know they are terrible you can give them money to get the color red!!! Hooray!!! And the best part you can do it every new raid!!! Yay!!!
Titan forging was straight trash. There are other things to do, and other games to play other than WoW 24/7.
This isn’t an actual argument for giving people gear who claim titles such as “casual.”
Both of these are equally rewarded in measure in WoW. Pouring 12 hours per day into the game farming trivial content gives you exactly what that “effort” is worth. Playing a couple of hours per day at even a moderate level of skill provides what that effort is worth.
So…raiders are part of the problem with world building and questing and solo tasks? Sounds like a trust me bro argument, and also not one worth even considering.
And that’s the bad take of the day. So WoW should be fundamentally redesigned from the ground up, breaking from how it has always been because a forum goer says so and uses words like “toxic” “culture” and “community.”
Right, more in line with what I posted above. The success of a 20 year old game should just be completely and entirely discounted and thrown out of the window because we should get people to “progress at their own pce.”
This is a freaking video game. You aren’t suffering. If you dislike how rewards are handled in WoW to the point that you consider yourself suffering, it seems like you should reevaluate your gaming habits.
Example-When titan forging was a system, I stopped playing.
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Naw, thanks for your concern, though.
Could the gear system be better as far as RNG protection for slots? Sure. But please don’t make it look as though the catalyst is the reason to not bother. I will continue to do world content for gearing up. Me, personally, I don’t really care too much about the catalyst anyway. Not worried about raid-tier bonuses. Maybe it makes a difference for some, but don’t lump us all together.
I’m a casual player for a reason (well, two if you count me being fed up with dealing with elitist jerks in LFD). I stopped bothering with M+ and just went the “slow and steady” easy route of just doing bare-minimum LFR and world quest rewards because I’m OK with having “just good enough” gear. I don’t need the highest-ilvl, top-notch, BiS gear. When I go do content, I’m just trying to get a high enough quality set to let me have an easier time doing dailies and old raids.
I know my place. I’m not trying to go join normal raids or M+ anymore since… well, ugh, BFA/SL. Got tired of … people. Yeah… So I don’t expect to have 440 or w/e ilvl. I’m happy sitting around the low 400’s. If I really was to get bothered by my “low” ilvl (“Oh, no! I don’t have mythic-raid-level gear! Whatever shall I do?”), then I guess I’ll brave the LFD tool again. But I’m perfectly happy with what I have.
I know I can’t speak for anyone but myself. And I know there will always be some out there who want the highest-possible gear available. Now look… until Blizz comes up with a better system for this season (I highly doubt it’s just the catalyst that’s the issue >.>), what might be better to ask for is some RNG protection for gear slots, such as being able to buy a guaranteed slot item. Honestly, I believe they will add that in eventually, maybe in 10.1.5 if enough people speak up. But I don’t feel like you’re being genuine when you say it’s the catalyst that’s the issue.
Or maybe I’m missing something here. I’m not 100% sure. Correct me if I’m wrong. Just seems to me that whether or not we can turn a piece into a raid-tier equivalent is the least of our problems.
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Hey don’t look at me. I just ran a normal raid. Took about 4 hrs to clear up to neltharion. We did pretty swell being a mottly pug most bosses being 1-3 pulls. 4 hours is pretty hardcore for me. We stopped at Neltharion cuz the tanks where tired. And so was I.
Back in BFA when tiranforging was a thing. Most of the time I got it from little snippets of playtime.
So yeah it could take a total of 12 hrs to get something nice. You could break that up into little 30minute to one our snippets.
I really enjoy raiding. However when you raid in this game, especially as a casual or pug like me. It takes a solid 30 mins to an hour to hook up and get rolling. A solid hour of that 4 hrs was just getting the group going finding replacements… etc…
Back in the day Titan forging was supposed to be in addition to raids not replacement… if I remember correctly though mythic raiders all felt forced to go farm Titan forged stuff which is silly because a lot of mythic raiders will run herioc and m+ 6+ hours a day…
So what Titan forging did was give ppl like me a chance to get lucky once a week and get something really nice out of a normal or +6 or emissary. Or the weekly dilungeon quest… I remember it fondly because I was playing 2 to 4 hours a day (most of my free time was actually spent running and doing yoga back then). So it was nice to work a day, do my workout. And get online for like an hour. And get super lucky to get a Titan forged thing. My guild at the time did normal for 2 hrs on Saturday and sunday and we switched over to herioc when our raid team was cruising thru normal. I think that was the most I played the game all week outside of the occasional mythic + and doing emissary quests. Which was pretty much all I could do all week. And I really fondly remember BFA and Titan forging. I don’t believe it caused a grind.
Totanforged stuff didn’t ever replace loot drops ppl got there loot. It was just a nice bonus…and then so we where always garanteed to get something clearly superior to the content we were already clearing. Even if it took 3 weeks. Except it happened way more commonly than that. Which was really nice. Great Vault almost always gives me complete garbage lawl.
Great Vault… I get lucky maybe it gives my BiS needed slot every 4 weeks… a lot of dupes to stuff I already have…
Titan Forging. I definitely got something superior at least once a week if not twice sometimes. Even if I already had good rings for the content I was doing or helping my guild mates do. I often got better. Weekly… not after a 12 hr grind session…
Firmly in my opinion BFA was really nice loot wise.
already left retail. df is still better than sl but its crap now hopefully they do better in later patches bc this one was a bust
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Yeah the tokens from great vault just don’t cut it rly. It’s like very meh. If the tokens let me vendor buy herioc gear I’d be cool with it even if it took 2 -3 weeks of taking tokens. It would make more sense to have them.
This patch is going to be over soon and nee raid sometime in a few months anyways…
I mean. Personally I will never quit over GV loot. It does cause me to not want to really push or aggressively progress content tho. While it’s current.
I mean, I certainly have not had the experience you describe. I’m not ilvl 437 or even close, and nobody has been toxic towards me for that reason. Moreover, players who choose not to play multiplayer content aren’t being driven out – by the player base or the design philosophy. Rather, they’ve been accommodated with content specifically designed to be soloable in a game primarily designed for multiplayer experiences.
I also think the system is reasonably designed to incentivize multiplayer content for faster progression, while allowing players who decide not to play multiplayer content to nonetheless have incremental progression. There’s a tension between incentivizing multiplayer activities and providing equivalent rewards for non-multiplayer activities, as the latter undercuts the former. Reasonable minds may differ, but as someone who has historically engaged primarily with non-multiplayer content, the balance here doesn’t seem unreasonably struck to me.
And, as I argued previously, quicker gear progression would trivialize any challenge from the only content solo players currently have without offering them more to do, so it does not seem necessary.
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Naw. It’s worse than it was and there really is just no breathing room.
Time investment is time investment and that should be rewarded in an MMO. Solo or not. Casual or not.
The hardest part of raiding today for me was organizing and managing it all. It wasn’t terribly difficult. Yet I got declined from the normal I applied to cuz my ilvl is low and people these days are sadly looking for zero effort and zero risk for their time.
Rewards used to be a bit better and player time was better respected. Even if the content wasn’t uber. This should still be the case.
So I must respectfully disagree with you. Our two experiences are dissimilar.
My biggest criticism is you don’t think certain players should have decent rewards or a decent power level to work for solo. Sure. The absolute best rewards should go to players who work together. Yet players who can’t for various reasons are still an important part of the community.
I came back for the community. I can’t say I can run my only raid every Saturday. I’d like to. I’d prefer to join others pugs who are better administrators than me. I don’t want to be left behind tho if all I can really manage is world quests for three weeks. Ide like to be able to come back and do normals without begging for a spot even as a healer… which is sort of the direction the game has been heading since SL.
It’s not dire yet. I see the writing on the wall.
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Yeah, I’m sure we have dissimilar experiences and I don’t doubt what you’ve experienced. I’d also disagree that time investment should be rewarded for the sake of time investment. I think rewards should be apportioned relative to the level of challenge you overcome, rather than the amount of time you have to commit – both take time investment and deserve rewards, but players who accomplish more challenging content should be better rewarded. I guess that’s the disconnect.
And yes, I do think that declining to engage with a substantial portion of the most challenging content – that is, multiplayer content – warrants lesser rewards. This is true not only because of the challenge-reward philosophy I hold, but also for another reason: solo players do not need exceptionally powerful gear to accomplish current solo content and providing such rewards trivializes the only content that solo players have available.
I empathize with your point about “on ramping.” I think the game needs to have an on ramp for players who are behind in content to allow them to participate in current multiplayer content. One option might be gearing up through Mythic Plus or Mythic 0s so that you’re more appealing as an applicant for normal raids. LFR is another option, as you cannot be rejected from those raids. As to Mythic+, the problem I think might arise (again, not typically a Mythic+ player so I haven’t been in that position) is that the further we get from patch day, the less incentive there is for players to run Mythic 0 or low + keys and, while I do see them to this day, I acknowledge it would be a problem if players could not effectively access multiplayer content. That’s something that should be addressed with incentives to run those lower level keys.
I don’t think that necessarily means gear progression needs to be more advanced for players who choose not to engage with multiplayer content, though, and it can be harmful for the incentive reasons I’ve outlined above.
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Some of the Zaralack content is horrificly tuned for solo players. I’m praying blizzard provides better tuned openworld content next time.
ZC is what has us upset. It’s better the higher ilvl I am getting. If I was 437 I’d probably consider it ok.
I do not want 437 doing ZC content. 411 would be totally appropriate and a jump off point for normal and m+
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The crux of the complaints here were that doing chores to keep a character optimized was bad game design. I don’t think Titan Forging existed for players who didn’t raid or do M+, but it was attractive to them because they got rewards that they normally would never get.
I remember the threads. I remember the reddit posts. I remember actually playing within the system. Titan Forging wasn’t well received.