Cause everyones gear was even .
Now when everyone got different gear and ttk is so short, i see no point in doing bgs.
I actually get a headache doing just one bg cause of this issue and go play other games.
In Bfa it was tolerable cause of long ttk, then it got worse with low ttk in shadowlands and finally in dragonflight its unbearable.
You can actually inspect your teammates gear before the bg and know the outcome for the match.
My 50cents
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sorry buddy. nobody on thjese forums wants ilvl normalized.
prepare to be flamed and called lazy / bad etc
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The whole point is to get better gearā¦.
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The gameplay of legion was way different too. The game was much slower compared to now/SLs
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Equal gear was just the tip of the iceberg and a ton of other PvP issues kept it afloat.
Here are some comments from back when Legion was relevant.
Pruning is probably the biggest and most obvious reason for the decline of PvP. They removed crucial abilities and concepts that allowed you to outplay your opponent.
The game is just damage with cooldowns now.
Yep, this. I still would play PvP if it would be fun, rewards and progression completely aside. The thing that makes people stick to PvP is that good feeling to play better than someone else, know a little bit more about their characters toolkit and if not to learn to improve. If you would freeze time now at each of your deaths in PvP and check your bars youād simply see that the tools to play good simply are missing.
They pushed most specs to the very barest bone what lead to a better balancing ānumberswiseā but fights simply arenāt fun anymore. Itās PvE (with rotations in which RNG plays usually a too big role), CC and cooldowntraiding.
Weāre at a point at which everything that plays on range simply needs another spec that compensates for his missing abilities. The very moment my spec feels unfit for practically all situations except āWell, Iām a SPriest I dot up everyone in BGs and hope I donāt get focusedā something went terribly wrong.
Honor talents also were bad for the game. The idea was bad (in my opinion), the implementation was just another excuse for even more pruning and putting everything that does something fancier than very basic stuff like X dmg, y seconds stun on another talent tree so it makes balancing easier.
Talents simply shouldnāt work like thatā¦ My warlock shouldnāt have a clear option against melee (CoW/ED) and one against casters(CoT/NW) and miss the other in BGs when playing against both. I should have both available while focusing on one with improved talents. Harder to balance, of courseā¦ But at least my class as a whole wouldnāt feel like lacking everywhere.
Sure, balance in that one particular gamemode that is the only thing they tune for is mostly fine if you play specific combs. The gameplay is unentertaing and scripted even there. Outside of 3s the game is worse than it ever has been.
- World PVP: World PVP is by far, and exponentially, the worst, and most embarrasingly poorly designed it has ever been. Please, go do world quests in low gear, or hell, any class that isnt a tank or a rogue. Its actually disgusting the state it has been allowed to proceed to live furthers. Its a f****** joke. And i say this as a 935 prot/arms warrior.
- Brawls: Brawls tend to be okay, but frankly they arent what PVPers are wanting. There is this feeling that disgruntled gamers have that āAnything I get that isnt fixing my problems is resources that could have been fixing my problems!!!ā Also, the brawls tend to be incredibly buggy on release, and make people never try them after the first game. Plus, some brawls, like southshore, are cancer for melee or certain classes.
With Legion, there has been no bgs added. Obviously, nothing new in the rotation will make things feel a bit more stale.
Now, lets talk about the actual Legion systems.
First off, the gear is completely RNG. PVPers used to be able to grind out honor and pick out the gear they chose. It was deterministic and made players feel like their grinding regardless of rating was working towards a goal. Now PVP gear is just decent ilvl gear, but it isnt even good in PVE because basically every piece has Versatility, for seemingly no other purpose than to make PVErs not feel like they have to PVP To do PVE.
Alot of PVPers are divided on the topic, but most high-end players I have seen missed using PVE trinkets in PVP, and other items. Obviously, templates were a lazy solution to the issue of Legiondaries, which have no place in legion PVP, proven by world pvp. The feeling you got when you got a piece of gear (PVP or PVE) and going into a bg after raid to s*** on noobs is gone. That sense of satisfaction you got after working towards a reward for player power is just not there anymore. Its sad.
Templates: Templates have made the game exponentially and almost solely focused on cooldowns. The only exception is classes that basically dont have cooldowns, which is usually dot classes like Spriests and Aff Locks, and geuss what? People hate them because of how braindead simple it is to get their damage out, regardless of how they fall over to certain comps. There is nothing satisfying about being on someone in instanced PVP, youre just wet noodling them for like 5% of their HP with f****** Mortal Strike or something. Its just miserable doing no damage to anything because nothing dies. With it being so hard to just burst people down due to things being more balanced, it creates these super long drawn out games where people are just f****** bored.
Team compositions: Legion is incredibly comp based. If youre playing with something like a Shadow Priest, and the enemy team is some kind of melee cleave, youre A) probably going to lose, and B) Going to be f****** miserable getting trained to death by them. On the flip side, you can be facing Shadow Priest/Aff Lock and hating everything in your life as poking your head around a pillar to play the game means you run into the retard in the middle of the map pressing instant dots and tab targeting. In RBGs, team comps is less of a problem now than it was previously in Legion; stupid s*** like triple mistweaver RBG pure dot cleave comps were a thing for MONTHS before Blizzard did anything. Edit: BTW, NO ONE LIKES TANKS IN PVP. NERF VENGEANCE DHS ALREADY.*
Pruning: This is quite possibly the biggest problem. MoP was the absolute peak of keybinds, buttons, and tools for classes. High-end PVPers, or even people who just PVPed alot, had an absolutely insane skill cieling. With such a high potential for most specs, the outplay potential was absolutely massive, and made 2400+ PVPers able to do crazy things like 1v2ing in rated 2v2s and such (Edit: See Ziqo or Xaryu mage MoP 1v2 videos on youtube if youre curious, you will get an idea from that). This also ties in with comps. With less spells and abilities, classes are limited to what they can and cannot do. It simply feels bad to have things taken away from you. Legion PVP streamers constantly complain about not being able to tell the difference between a ārank 1 of X class, or a 1800 player of X class.ā The skill ceiling is simply too low in Legion, while the skill floor is high. With how much time it requires to be competitve in PVP, it feels really bad knowing that the ceiling to your abilities is so low.
Itās funny seeing these comments from 6+ years ago and seeing that, despite complaints, some of these systems remained in the game.
Legion world pvp was amazing. Thats how i spent 75% of my time that expac.
Legion was great because PvP was tightly balanced, especially in the later seasons.
Gear advantages were minimized. A fresh max level toon would quickly narrow the power gap down to like 1% to 3%.
You could hop into rated PvP and be competitive with max bis geared players. It was more about skill, and much less about gear.
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Yeah, to hunt dragons not to fight players. PvP should always be about equal footing, not equal skill.
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I would prefer it if Unrated PvP had stat templates, and awarded a currency upon winning for PvP gear that could then be used in Rated PvP. I would not want templates in Rated PvP.
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I had a LOT of fun in Legion BGs and i came back near the end of the xpac. Templates worked great (except at lowbie levels, lol). Itās too bad blizz listens to the āthere must be lengthy āgear progressionā for casual/unranked/world PvPā types. The only thing that should require lengthy gear progression is rated PvP.
Does Blizz listen? That would be a first. A blue has not posted on these forums for forever. They donāt even know it exists.