Or, blessing of freedom now gives 50% movement speed to you and your target. I realise this is almost the same thing as Tiger’s Lust but I don’t give a crap, give us mobility.
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Unbound freedom should be removed from the ret pvp talent options and placed in the general paladin talent tree with a buff to its movement speed increase to 50%.
Put this on a choice node with long arm of the law if you want to go all out.
Give us avenging leap as a talent choice node with divine steed. We atleast need the option as a paladin to have an instant gap closer, at the sacrifice of divine steed.
Thought about some other nice returning abilities that could be used as replacement talent ideas.
The CC break from our legion artifact ashbringer. Unbreakable will?
The reduction of forbearance cooldown to 20 secs.
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I think in order to be realistic we can’t have avenging leap, divine steed and the option between unbound freedom+long arm. That’s way too much, I really don’t think they’d go for that.
However unbound freedom going into the class tree alongside uthers guard somewhere else in the tree would be amazing.
Unbound gives you+your target freedom with a big speed boost, and uthers guard if you talent it would increase the duration of your blessings+give them a small heal when used. I think that’s a great way to amp up our utility without going overboard and add in mobility.
However, on top of that, I’d like to see a choice node for divine steed that is “Improved divine steed: steed is now immune to slows/knockbacks/movement effects” and “Steed now lasts 2 (or 3) seconds longer”. I think a choice node here is good, and cavalier would still be in the tree by itself.
No idea why honor talents across all 3 specs are really cool and boost our utility/mobility but there are 2 of them that belong in the class tree (unbound freedom and prots steed immunity).
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At this point even though I am not the biggest fan of the new consecration focus for ret paladins, avenging leap and the consecration it could put down opens up the door to a lot of utility for paladins. If you talent into consecration removing slows, you can leap to your ally and cleanse you both. Or you could talent into the slow with consecration and landing on your enemy instantly drops a slow. Some great synergies here that warrant a serious look at avenging leap being considered as a new talent option for paladin as a choice node competing with divine steed.
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not gonna lie, we have bigger issues than mobility
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Short-term, yes. Long-term, I’m not so sure.
I never like when people say this. It does not matter what other issues there are, people can talk about whatever issues they find with the class. Having other issues (whether they are bigger or not) does not negate this one or mean we should not mention it. Mobility is high on the list though.
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the thing is, our mobility is okay too. the real issue with mobility is how we went from 6 second horse to 4 second horse. granted 6 second horse was to long anyways, it still sucked it was nerfed to 5 sec and nerfed further to 4 seconds. if anything blessing of freedom should provide a speed boost like our sister class dk
Awful idea, stick to your day job. Half the time you need mobility it’s to run with your group away from some mechanic like a ground pound or to run away from everyone else to drop a puddle or whatever other mechanic. Paladin would just have to walk away in such cases with no target to leap to. You completely lost the thread at “replaces Divine Steed”. This would make paladin mobility even worse.
Paladin mobility is beyond awful compared to every other class. Even DKs got 2 charges of DA + Wraith Walk now and Priests have feathers + PWS sprint. Any new ability like this needs to be in addition to Divine Steed… not just replacing one weak mobility on a long cooldown with another. Mobility is FUN, blizz needs to embrace this concept and stop putting some archaic “class fantasy” ideas above FUN. They gave a bunch of classes more ability in Dragonflight, yet somehow Paladin mobility got even worse.
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If the mechanic requires you to run away with your group, you would be able to leap to a friendly party member instantly. Even better, after leaping away to your ally, you could leap right back to the boss to get back in the fight. I also originally created this thread outright replacing divine steed with avenging leap but after hearing feedback from a few paladins showing their love for the ability, I decided to implement this as a choice node alongside it. So this in fact would not replace divine steed. Also I suggest adding unbound freedom to the general paladin talent tree and give it a buff to provide 50% increased movement speed to you and a potential ally during blessing of freedom. So if you take avenging leap, you will not be losing mobility. And if you choose to take divine steed, you would be gaining a bit of mobility through unbound freedom as well plus being able to provide this buff to a friendly target.
Your last point I do completely agree with. Mobility is simply FUN. I no longer believe that our traditional view of a paladin’s class fantasy to be generally immobile is the right direction forward.
Blizzard has said that with dragonflight, this is essentially phase 3 for world of warcraft development and it would be fitting to break some old, outdated class designs to go alongside this change in philosophy. I have always understood the point of why paladin should be immobile and even more importantly, why some melee classes should not have a strong array of instant gap closers. But taking into account our closest comparison of enhancement shaman, they received the option to have gust of wind AND essentially a baseline feral lunge. Have enhancement shamans since become overpowered? No. If this treatment can be done for enhancement, who previously was the only other melee without an instant gap closer option, it now should be done for ret as well.
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Being able to land on allies and remove their slows actually would be a nice piece of added utility to the game for ret mostly in pvp. The leap and snare could be interesting in dungeons as prot too.
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Maybe consider Avenging Leap for a ret pvp talent. I really wouldn’t want that in m+, it would be a mobility downgrade relative to the horse. If something different is wanted for PvE, then maybe a choice node for horse vs other thing, so at least we can still get our horse mobility if we want it.
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really the most simple solution is to make hand of freedom grant a speed buff and have a second charge. horse is fine as is. dont over think things
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Considering Avenging Leap for a ret pvp talent only would be something I would still get behind. I do believe that a choice node for Avenging Leap/Divine Steed is beneficial and the right direction to move the paladin class into.
I do not do mythic+, could you explain why you wouldn’t want it in that gameplay scenario? I’m sure I could understand why but am curious to hear specific points. And because you personally do not want it in m+, would you be open to having this included as a potential choice node talent option for mobility?
I could see it being a downgrade compared to steed but only in certain situations. But the leap as an instant gap closer to enemies/allies has upgrades in certain situations too. This would be a benefit to allow both as choices the paladin can make depending on their preferred playstyle/class fantasy.
All of this to say that Unbound Freedom should also see its appearance in the general paladin talent tree and out of just the ret pvp talents. A speed boost here is appropriate and fits the niche of true paladin gameplay of providing support to your allies. And the buff for holy pvp to have this freedom undispellable is the right call too.
Paladin main since TBC checking in. I have never once in my life posted on these forums, but as I’ve come back for Dragonflight, suddenly I feel the need to speak up. Usually played Prot but have been focusing on Ret PVP in retail for awhile and…well…
Paladin feels particularly bad to play in this expansion, and for a long list of reasons.
We are supposed to be the quintessential “healing melee,” yet we have the weakest healing out of any class maybe besides Hunter. Rogues, Mages, Locks, Demon Hunters, DKs all out pace us and force us to sacrifice damage for WOG - a lackluster heal for around 30-40k in full honor gear.
We are defined by our signature spell, Divine Shield and its Forbearance effect - an ability that provides “complete immunity” to all spells and effects, yet can be dispelled and shattered with 1 second casts from Priests or Warriors while Warlocks and Mages have near constant shielding for an entire fight.
We are supposed to be the class that can “remove roots and slows,” yet our Hand of Freedom is easily stolen or dispelled unless we take a frankly mandatory PVP talent. Forcing us to sacrifice 1 of our 3 pvp slots for mobility that only lasts a few seconds before you get snared, rooted, slowed, or frankly just frostbolted once while your target glides across the map on blinks, rolls, wings, leaps or whatever.
Ironically, for a class that wears plate armor and relies on holy magic to shield and heal itself, is now one of the squishiest classes in World of Warcraft. No mobility to catch any of the super mobile classes, no healing without sacrificing damage, no shielding that cannot be instantaneously broken by a plethora of classes or just raw damage in the case of SOV, and now no utility spells like BOP, freedom, or LOH unless we specifically talent into them.
It is hilariously ridiculous that warriors, a completely “mundane” class that essentially consists of a guy with a stick, is out healing every Paladin spec in PVP. Yes, even Holy paladins.
I’m not sure where the class design went so wrong, considering almost every other class I have played seems to have an almost endless amount of movement, shields, and self heals, but it is absolutely egregious that Paladin has been so dismantled as a class.
At the end of the day, though, I don’t want to be super overpowered. I don’t want to fly across the map on wings like a Demon Hunter. I actually enjoy the idea of being a juggernaut that keeps coming after you no matter what you do. Slow, methodical, heavy damage is a fun concept to play. But we are not that. If you want that, play a Death Knight - they are certainly better at it right now.
What I do want is to actually feel like a Paladin again. And by that, I really sort of mean something like Johanna in Heroes of the Storm. A crusader that flings themselves at the enemy team and causes mass chaos while stunning people, blinding them with holy light, protecting allies, and getting revenge for the fallen.
While Avenging Leap can work, I’m of a different persuasion on our abilities. I think we need something akin to Johanna’s HOTS ultimate ability “Falling Sword” or Tyrael’s “Judgment” for mobility.
It doesn’t need to be a Warrior’s leap or charge. Let them have their instant rush abilities. Instead, with a very small channel time like 1s, send us flinging into a TARGET and stunning or slowing the enemy for 1-2 seconds. It’s thematic, it has a drawback in that it can be silenced or stopped, but it allows us to live the fantasy of being a Paladin and rushing at the enemy to do holy battle.
And that’s all I’ve got.
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The majority of the cases involve there just isn’t a target to get. When I’m using divine steed it’s because I am running out of something and I generally (which some small exceptions) do not want to run with the group when I run out, I want to run to a different location. This is to minimize followup frontals from hitting the party and to also keep myself safe from the other teammates who may have quaking circles, poison circles, etc. I pug a lot and the amount of times I need to dodge my own teammates is pretty high. The other time I use steed, I am trying to get ahead of the group early so I can setup the next pull, build some early threat, toss out some special control or LoS techniques to gather before the DPS get settled and going. I am not generally in range of the next pull when that happens and if I am, then it’s too late to get that early lead/setup as the dps are also in range already and can start casting. Having that early lead on dps is also pretty essential if I want to setup a LoS at the beginning of the pull (again from a pug perspective, as a pug tank, I always want to be ahead of my group…not too far ahead, but ahead enough).
I’m not saying the leap is a bad idea, just I wouldn’t want that to be my only choice, it would limit a lot of the pull setups I would like and hinder me from escaping to safe places when needed. I can see the value of it for gap closing in pvp and even in just general world content.
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thats boring
I appreciate your response and feedback for this post. Really enjoyed reading it.
I am also a paladin main since TBC. I don’t seem to agree with most of what ret paladins are saying on the forums. So far I have had a good experience in battlegrounds and dueling. But I understand the concerns around defensives, mobility and trading damage for healing.
My complaint ultimately is that I do not have anything that makes my paladin feel fresh or exciting. Dragonflight’s talent trees have brought a lot of potential back but Paladin feels like the biggest missed opportunity. Paladins have always been viewed as immobile but times should change now. I remember seeing the shaman talent tree early on beta and was shocked to see gust of wind. My hopes were up for Blizzard finally giving Paladin new mobility options, like an instant gap closer.
But here we are. What finally inspired me to make this post was the Hearthstone cinematic trailer showing Liadrin using a leap against Arthas. Someone or a group of people thought that out, designed the art/animation and it made the final cut into the live trailer Blizzard gave the okay to. What could possibly be the reason for not allowing paladins in game to do the same? Especially when many have wanted instant gap closers mechanically/ascetically and many dislike divine steed.
I agree that there are potentially “cooler” design options or that a leap may feel like it’s getting close to warrior gameplay. But a leap is the most practical and reasonable approach. It can be made to feel functionally different such as only being targetable for an actual target, not a free location. To your point I would even be okay with Avenging Leap requiring a small channel time of 1s. Just for trying to keep some unique drawback on adding paladin mobility. But since Hearthstone recently showcased a Paladin leap, this is the best and right time to draw attention to it.
Something worth mentioning for some extra leverage though, is that the moment Tirion breaks free from the ice in the fight against Arthas, he leaps and shatters frostmourne. 
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IMO, we have a simpler solution.
Make steed off gcd and prevents paladin from being slowed/snared below 100% while active.
Make Unbound Freedom into a regular talent.
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Sounds great to me. Where’s Blizzard? Implement this now plz.
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