you can ride right PAST yazra bloodsnarl, skipping everyone in the lower half by jumping into the base from the snowbank on the west and ride STRAIGHT to rh gy without aggroing anyone but the guards.
And you think the alliance base is as unprotected? LMAO
Sure. Blame design when it’s something that is totally avoidable. It’s not even hard to avoid them and yet horde players can’t manage to do that. And the best part is they use that as an excuse for keep “imbalances”.
You literally have pats that walk to the end of the bridge, a blacksmith and friends clustered right at the base of the north tower, not to mention the multiple npcs just sw of the gy flag, and to top it off your flag directly on the spot where you recall to.
The two bases are not even REMOTELY similar, nor is the npc proximity.
I’ve got to admit, I’m 
at your response considering how much denial I’ve seen from you on relevant map imbalances like horde cave location. Imagine crying about base NPCs while dismissing a starting location that can literally impact the outcome of the game.
This is hilarious. You’re actually trying to compare the defensibility of dun baldar to frostwolf keep. the one where the entrance has zero cover from 2 archer towers. The one where npcs aggro even if you don’t come close to them.
Tell me something, Consensus. What, in your opinion, are the advantages that Alliance has in PVP in general and AV in particular?
that’s weapons-grade victim complex right there.
You want me to take you seriously when you’re crying about avoidable NPCs but dismiss a starting location that has an actual impact on games? Get out!
Don’t care what was ‘intended.’ Do (and did) care about what effect it had on Alliance win/loss rates when the changes went into effect. I did a lot of BGs in BC in three battlegroups. lol
Appreciate you acknowledging this Hawne. 99.9% of horde will not speak up about this and show that there is no problem. Now if Blizzard could do something about this…
It’s hard to take your arguments seriously when you pile on 99 issues, most of which aren’t even a true problem, especially when I am in the games and see the problems with my own two eyes.
I would be totally fine with them changing the starting area for the Horde in a way that was considered balanced, but after the initial clash, you still will need to win some PvP.
At some point your team has to be good enough to make a stop, and you have 2 more defensive chokes in order to pull it off. At a certain point your team will need to show the resilience that was required for the Horde to win in AV when we had to go up against pre mades, which was far less balanced than any of the complaints in this thread.
Correctling you =/= crying.
You were the one complaining about the DB backdoor when it’s clear that the Alliance don’t need to backdoor because they can use the blessed front-door as the FW Keep is totally indefensible.
Horde have the best choke point with IBGY and yes Alliance can ride through base but the mid building leading to Drek is easily defensible as well as the gates with the towers. Those are perfect AoE spots which Alliance cannot side step.
by mid building you mean the one which you can literally jump past on the eastern side and skip?
I’ve been in plenty of AVs where the alliance wiped the horde multiple times and took IBGY. Every time it falls flat to the 20 man rez waves from the cave before IBGY is capped or after its capped and alliance try to secure TP from the horde using the hill behind it to jump up to the second level.
IBGY is a turkey shoot. Horde ranged classes can stack up on the cliff with the broken tower and shoot into our backline and melee can flank there as well.
Alliance need a full 30 man team defending it and 10 players capping the next GY to get out of there as fast as possible. You just have to hope they have the discipline not to zerg forward.
It’s the equivalent of having alliance having an uncappable rez point next to the lumber mill that they will always spawn at no matter how many GYs you cap. You essentially have to fight waves of 20 people at a time coming from your flank while you try and push from SHGY to SPGY. That would be, if you couldn’t just choke alliance in SHGY.
But the reality of the map is, Alliance are setup for a last stand defense and flank. You essentially give horde SPGY so you can setup in your base and hope anyone that spawns in the cave attempts to head south to actually start an offense.They could also stall the game out by zerging SPGY from the cave.
Are you seriously suggesting the fwgy takes 10 people to cap?
I agree with all of your posts. They are very thought out and reasonable and devs should take note.
I do have a question though. I played Ally for a long time from late BC to MoP and played a lot of AV. At the end of MoP I switched to Horde and aside from a little in BFA, I played Horde ever since. I have not played the Alliance side of AV in Classic WoW. What would happen if Ally devoted all of their resources to wiping Horde at SHGY instead of Horde’s slow roll up the hill and eventually overcoming Ally and farming them at the spawn point?
Does it just not matter because the Horde spawn point, at that point in the game, is too close to SH? What if Ally rolled from wiping Horde at SH and immediately kept pushing south and met them in the middle?
What do premades do exactly that a pug with at least one person in chat trying organize can’t do?
The problem is those strategies are predicated on the alliance have a superior group makeup (including superior gearing, i.e. more helmets/fists, and better healer/dps mix). I’ve seen that latter strategy work twice with premades before the stealth fix, and both the premades were loaded with mages/pallys and their aoe just completely wrecked the horde with an initial ambush at SH GY and then again near IB GY. At that point, horde was choked off at IB GY and alliance slowly grinded to victory by not letting any horde past until they’d completely taken FW GY.
Here’s the problem if both sides are equal, i.e. alliance doesn’t have a premade or doesn’t have a better group makeup/better geared group:
SH GY’s flag becomes a trap in and of itself if alliance can’t push out of there because horde can set up a pincer around the flag from northwest and south, and it becomes impossible for alliance to hold that flag indefinitely against an equal team that has better positioning.
Horde will eventually push alliance into the GY in every match where there’s a stalemate at SH GY because horde’s melee meet the alliance melee at the flag but horde healers/range have better positioning to set up to wipe and push the alliance team into the GY. Alliance is all grouped there and takes a lot more aoe damage while horde spreads out…
That’s not a bad thing in and of itself, but it just means that the horde’s ability to dictate initiative is a problem on a map built this way. Once alliance is all trapped in SH GY in an equal fight, the game is lost. That’s the biggest problem that I see right now, and the bulk of it comes from the fact that horde gets a 20 second or so head start based on positioning of the cave.
You also have to think of it like a numbers game, even if the horde wipes near SH GY, they’ve all rezzed and can typically meet alliance in the middle in a second wave.
That means alliance basically has to roll the horde completely one time just to reach an equal position and negate the starting advantage. But pugs can’t pull that off, and equal matches can’t pull that off.
Pugs have to win that match 3:1 in both the initial engagement and the 2nd wave of horde rezzers just to effectively negate the starting position of the horde; i.e. horde losing 60 while alliance only loses 20. It’s just not going to happen often, or if it does it’s largely because horde have an undergeared group or very few healers (sometimes I’ve seen horde pugs with less than 2-3 priests/druids/shamans, and you know that’s a group that is in for a bad time).
fact #1
during av launch alliance one every single av match in 7m.there were no issue then.
fact #2
with a SIMPLE QUEUE TIME CHANGE the alliance cant win any more avs.
why cant alliane win any more avs?because the alliance are not ridding the coat tails of premade rank grinding groups.
is this really that hard not to see?
Which is why Blizzard eventually moved the horde cave further south in 2.x and still remains there in retail to this day. Furthermore they recently elevated SHGY to make it easier to defend.
Not sure why Horde is disputing this.
They moved the cave because they added reinforcements.
Know what you’re talking about before you post next time. Just makes you Allies look dumb as hell.
You keep flailing for excuses that aren’t relevant, at all.