They don’t call it shooting fish in a barrel for no reason. I’ll keep in mind the fish may escape said barrel and kill me at any moment though.
Exactly. You’ve spent 30 minutes pushing back and forth for nothing. No LT kills, no objectives taken, you have a couple of towers down and you’re right back to where you started. Now you can try again with what’s been a completely losing battle or you can give up and let it end then in 3 mins get another.
What choice do you think most people make?
If the game starts mismatched and it’s been a slow push back then most people won’t have the fight left in them to push more. It’s psychology, something most people discount in these battles. Getting worn down by losing fight over fight over the course of a battle takes its toll.
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Read what I said again.
I did. The people in premades loved them. But the Alliance forced to endure their side-effects absolutely did not love them.
In the AV timeline this gets fixed as the Marshal’s and War Masters become linked as well as buff up their respected Commander. Wither Blizzard has the resources to change the map is another question. Simple code changes are easy but re-designing a map requires another type of skill set unless they want to dump a retail map onto classic, which opens another can of worms.
So my question is, other then the few Alliance that wanted them to end and the screaming Horde wanted them to end, this was fair how to those Alliance that got screwed over and Horde who had to wait 30 minutes for a loss? Your own premade teams have shown that it wasn’t the map that was a issue, but the player base. Now that the premade era moved on, it’s still the original issue the player base who can’t deal with the map like a premade can.
If both sides are fighting back and forth, then both sides are still getting honor, maybe not objective honor but your getting honor from killing other players. 200 HKs can give you around 3k honor in addition to anything you get objective wise. Its why I can do 1 AV match and get the same amount of honor I can from 10 WsG matches that are mostly loss’s.
Man what is your deal, why are you so hellbent on arguing over this. My guess is tribalism but I really don’t get you at all.
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Because everyone basically agrees that people are afk, people are hiding and people are not trying and people are quitting out.
And when I ask them if any of those reasons might be the reason they’re losing…every…single…one of them just goes “no, MAP BAD.”
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Whether they want to make inauthentic changes is probably even before that one.
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Nope, we were mostly fine with them.
Do you want me to dig up the (at least) two giant posts about Alliance pugs getting their accounts sanctioned because Alliance premades were falsely reporting them?
Nope, you can bring that up all you want. It doesn’t change that Alliance were pretty much fine with the premades.
Yeah, there were a few premades that did that kind of thing but it was rare. Most times when you were a pugger that happened to get into a premade BG you went along for the ride and actually won for the first time in a while.
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You really don’t remember all the hatred being spewed at “Alliance snipers” do you? It was not that long ago. Bruce made a great post satirizing it too.
And are you really suggesting that Alliance puggers were really fine with games launching with 5 Alliance because some times get accidentally queued into a premade?
Because the Alliance were losing most of their games so we didn’t blame those who grouped up to win. I mean, look at it now, the premades are gone so now everyone on Alliance loses. At least the premades came up with a solution.
We can come up with all sorts of reasons why the Alliance lose like they do now but it comes down to one thing: Blizzard needs to do something. When the players try to come up with a solution it either results in something like the premades, people botting, or a huge amount of apathy. This is Blizzards game and they should be driving the changes that need to be done rather than throwing bandaids on it.
I remember a few people doing that and they were very loud. Many Horde took that cry up because it furthered their aims, removing the premades that were winning against them. Not many Alliance were actually upset at premades, just at the few that were misusing the right-click-report.
And no, a game should never have launched with 5 people on a side. But that could have been fixed without getting rid of the ability for people to group up and actually win.
I don’t like this line of thought, it is basically reinforces that you cannot trust anything the other side says because they have ulterior motives…and that is antithetical to a good conversation.
The fact that people were doing it AT ALL is enough to have killed premades in-and-of itself because of how awful that truly is.
Honestly premades are water under the bridge at this point. It is hard to see any scenario under which Blizz brings them back.
You have to read people’s posts with a skeptical eye and call out what appear to be their motives. But yes, the bad actors on these forums muddy the conversation since you have to start questioning everything that is said. And that is antithetical to a good conversation.
Still, people are doing it and the conversation does get muddied.
There isn’t “the reason”, there are the reasonS.
One is map bad.
You’re striking a pose of reasonableness here, but you’re the one trying to blow off the fact that the map is imbalanced. Meanwhile, nobody has argued that AFKers/Botters don’t matter.
If Blizz flipped the map full 180 and nothing else changed I would expect A to win 50-60% of the time. A would still have all the bad incentives that come from instant queues - in fact those incentives might well get worse if winning became common.
I don’t really like the idea of Blizz making constant inauthentic changes in the name of fairness, but that is probably inevitable the way things look now.
Changing the spawn of Horde who die at IBGY from the cave to FWGY would probably make the most difference, be the least work and be the least inauthentic.
My own maybe too clever suggestion is optional same-realm teams. That would allow A to establish an etiquette of “AFK/fish/quest xrealm” and the A playerbase to divide. On some servers it would practically allow backdoor premades. H could of course do all these things too, but since leechers/botters are a bigger problem for A it would help them more.
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