AV how to win against horde?

[Misadventure-herod]

@Youtube-kurinnaxx

premades

@Youtube-kurinnaxx

horde whined and whined and whined and Blizzard made sure to hotfix that for them

I love how this mantra still exists.

[Jadei-grobbulus]

Because they do zug zug SHGY every game because once it’s softcapped horde can send anyone south behind a choke that took them one gy cap to set up.

[Painkillers-faerlina]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

No I said the conditions it will succeed under are the same conditions that a zerg will succeed under, horde either need to be playing minimal to no D because they are also zerging or the alliance team has to be vastly better. Which means you might as well just zerg.

The only thing I can interpret from this is that it requires the alliance not to pursue IBGY, therefore it’s too complicated and if it’s too complicated then you may as well just zerg.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Painkillers-faerlina

@Ziryus-doomhammer

No I said the conditions it will succeed under are the same conditions that a zerg will succeed under, horde either need to be playing minimal to no D because they are also zerging or the alliance team has to be vastly better. Which means you might as well just zerg.

The only thing I can interpret from this is that it requires the alliance not to pursue IBGY, therefore it’s too complicated and if it’s too complicated then you ma y as well just zerg.

Yes now you’re starting to understand why it’s not a good strat. If you have two strats that require the same conditions to work but one is more complicated and therefore less likely to succeed it’s the worse strat.

[Rathia-deviate-delight]

The discrepancy between the quantity and quality of Horde that PVP compared to Alliance is too big.

Horde have been the faction to be on retail for way too long and it’s spilled over into a larger chunk of the competent/more hardcore players being Horde.

It’s terrible for the game, especially the PVP facet of the game.

Pointing to it and saying ‘Hur Hur Player Issue’ is stupid and only part of the story.

When you social engineer players for years to roll Horde…then end up with highly imbalanced factions…that is a player made issue driven by garbage design decisions which are made repeated over the course of multiple expansions with no course correction.

Classic WoW balance was.alwsys going to b a dumpster fire after they comitted to ‘no changes’ (mostly because it was easy for Blizz and less work).

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Keep queuing until you happen to get an alliance group that is vastly better than the horde group.

That’s really the only way to overcome the map advantage.

Or stop queuing until horde stop playing scorched earth.

@Misadventure-herod

It’s really weird that prior to release you argued up and down that 1.12 was the best vanilla version of AV, and that more pvp happened in it than pve. When folks pointed out the race aspect of 1.12, you were quick to explain that all one had to do to avoid it being a race was to defend objectives and force pvp. Now a year later you demonize the very thing you suggested, giving it ridiculous drama laden labels like “sCoRcHeD eArTh”.

And now seemingly you promote the race so that alliance will want to queue for AV…

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Ahh good old 2.3 - the only time in history when ally didn’t dominate AV. How soon we forget.

AV wasn’t rebalanced because it was out of balance. It was changed because it was boring. It was a 7 minute zerg and the devs didn’t like that.

So, reinforcements were added and the generals were impossible to kill without first killing all the Lts.

You’re kidding yourself if you think it was to rebalance. Cognitive Dissonance at its finest with 99% of the alliance.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Horde were the underdogs in:

Vanilla
TBC

They became more popular later, but ally side still dominated the PVE scene. Also, everyone wen ally for pvp until the every man for himself change.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

It does, but people are stupid on ally.

[Mirrina-ashkandi]

Well people could do drek(2lt) and drek(1lt). drek(0lt) was pretty easy. I believe their was an achievement which required a perfect zerg and tank pull aka drek(4lt).

[Rathia-deviate-delight]

I was Horde in Vanilla.

Horde were never the underdogs in PvP. They had it harder in PvE and were sometimes the lower population faction; but they were always the alpha/min-max faction. It’s only become progressively more Horde dominant over time.

I swapped to Alliance in Catacylsm for awhile (ironically to play in a different PvE guild) and had access to Every Man for Himself. There were definitely hard-core PvP players who swapped to play Alliance chiefly because of PvE trinkets and Every Man for Himself racial.

Alliance weren’t dominant in PvP (as a collective) during that period, although Every Man for Himself was obviously the most powerful racial in the entire game for PvP during that period and it helped to temporarily counter-balance what had been several prior years of Horde popularity.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Well, now we know you’re making things up. Alliance was 100% the dominant faction in early wow.

Nearly every top arena comp at that time as well went alliance. It was pretty much mandatory for serious pvp.

Your posts would be more honest if you just said what you really meant - that you refuse to look at fact and recognize that ally just play more poorly.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

Look another guy who thinks he knows what hes talking about.

AV was changed because matches were taking too long, not because they were 7 minutes rofl.

I love when people try to guess facts, not only that but youre actually trying to speak for the Devs and are still wrong Lmfao.

Heres a quote on why AV was reworked “Blizzard removed most of the elite NPCs and introduced a resource system so that a round of AV took minutes rather than hours – or days.”

Literally the OPPOSITE of what you claim.

Also Alliance also “won” this version of AV…but look at us now, the changes made in the TBC version are literally the fixes we are asking for, No more cave respawn, which is the sole reason we are losing now, and pushing the cave back.

Im willing to bet we go from a 1-5% win rate that we currently have to atleast a 40% win rate in TBC AV.

Good try tho, just another clueless troll.

[Mário-duskwood]

Wasn’t the horde whining tho, it was the alliance puggers who would get vote kicked out or abandoned to fight 10v40 against the horde that whined enough to get blizz to nerf premades

[Aradell-pagle]

How to win at AV as Alliance, or more accurately how to lead your team to victory.

First, choose your opportunity. Due to longstanding structural imbalances between the teams, you will not often have an alliance team capable of winning. The best way to do this is start out with a SHGY turtle. Folks will naturally assume this position and it is a good enough start. Some people will zerg this or that offensive objective, just let that happen. They may even win, but more likely they will be back at shgy soon enough.

Now. You test your team a little. Work to get them defending SHGY AND the choke point. No horde get past uncontested. This is where you should physically be. You will start to naturally build a strike force that will begin to hold the choke, Balinda, and the road toward SFGY.

At this point, check the scorecard. Are you winning at hks as a faction? Is it roughly 2 to 1? Are you holding the choke and shgy without breaking a sweat? This is a team that can win.

Ok, now you will start to focus your team on IBGY. Point out that you are winning. Lead a push toward IBGY. Exhort folks to come until you have 15 or 20 there. Encourage the defense of SHGY. Assert that the team needs IBGY more than the towers.

Take IBGY, burn the two towers there and enter into the race phase. At this point, your defense needs to be 10 to 15 players and needs to strategically fall back to contest bunkers, the choke, spgy, and finally the bridge. They are critical to buying time to burn bunkers and assault the horde base. Many times this plan fails because the defense never materialized.

Now go forth, trounce horde, kill the npcs and hopefully win before horde kills galv.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Oh look, another guy who thinks he’s right when attacking someone who is right:

1. AV was changed in 2.3 because it was a 7 min zerg where you just pulled the generals out and leashed the lieutenants.

2. Post change, alliance win rate dropped to 0 due to reinforcements and the choke point at IB now mattering.

3. Alliance organized a boycott of AV in 2.3 https://www.engadget.com/2008-02-08-the-av-map-imbalance-in-patch-2-3-a-different-perspective.html In 2.4 the horde cave was changed.

4. Blizzard made the first bunch of changes in 1.10:

AV v1.11.0:

Most of the NPC guard units have been removed.

Players now drop more quest items.

Creatures that remain in Alterac Valley have had their hit points reduced.
The buff that is periodically cast by each faction’s Captain has been changed to a flat 20% hit point buff.

Upgrading troops through armor scrap turn-ins will also now result in your team’s General enabling a periodic buff to your melee and spell damage. This buff scales from 10% at the Seasoned unit level, 20% at the Veteran unit level, and 30% at the Champion unit level.

The next major overhaul came with 2.2:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150203103232/http://wow.joystiq.com/2007/10/01/does-the-horde-really-win-every-battleground/

So, no, not the opposite of what I claim. The sole reason we are losing is cause we premaded the horde into this strat because we were total dogsht. And now we are reaping the rewards of what we did.

I’m willing to bet that once 2.4 AV rolls out, yes you will jump to 60%+ BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT ALWAYS WAS FROM THE START OF AV TO CURRENT.

Good try tho, just another clueless player that thinks they know something.

There’s two items in game named for my former guildmates by yours truly: Maghia’s misguided quill, and Volde’s Cloak of the Night Sky. So yeah, I know what I’m talking about.

Enjoy.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

We premaded the horde into ATTACKING THEIR FIRST OBJECTIVE?!!? ROFL

Do you hear yourself? What did you expect horde to do, skip shgy?

And no, we are LOSING because we cant out reinforce IBGY when we contest it, im not gonna waste my time explaining this to you, its all well known. There is nothing you can do when horde can rez more units and those units have half the distance to the objective youre trying to defend.

Whos going to hold the objective?

The army that can rez 20 at a time 20 seconds away

The army that rez’s 10 at a time 50 seconds away

Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

[Vartonis-deviate-delight]

Thank you for responding with more proof that we are actually just bad. That wasn’t hard to admit, was it?

Anyway dragon time! See yah.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

Good luck on all druid loot.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Vartonis-deviate-delight

AV was changed in 2.3 because it was a 7 min zerg where you just pulled the generals out and leashed the lieutenants.

Reinforcements are a change to make games shorter not longer.