Por que no los dos?
It’s both, man. Because the map is the way it is, those that are simply looking for honor don’t do AV. Other than maybe healers who aren’t in a premade - I got ok honor on my paladin just chain healing everyone in range. But it should be pretty obvious if you play AV a fair amount that by far most of the alliance players are there for rep and aren’t nearly as geared as the horde are.
Cool story… does nothing to adress any of the map advantages horde have at the bridge(lok,wolves,bombers), ignores FAPs which are just better BoF, still doesnt get around the fact that ot requires insane numbers of mages and warlocks working in perfect sync and dying at exact timings and basically playing at a crazy level to sorta work and is still thwarted by a coupld warrios intercepting and fear bombing followed by 30 horde running past backed up by a raid boss.
And then EVEN IF ALL of your theory were to work that only gets the alliance back to SHGY were they have to fight horde at a terrain disadvantage with a GY that is farther away then the horde and fight through a choke point to contest it.
Its almost like you are completely wrong about everything in AV.
it is trolling when that opinion has zero basis in reality, has been shown multiple times to be false and is generally shown to be someone who is either unwilling to engange in real discussion or is just trying to get a rise out of people because in this case its indistinguishable from one another and exactly what you are doing.
I Do not expect you to ever change your opinion because you are either a troll or have flat earther levels of denial of reality, however other people might not realize how insane the map imbalance is and so seeing the discussion might help them.
that one game i was in with you was so close lol, better luck next time. interested to see how you will refine the strat.
Blizz where you at. Just make the simple change already no cave rezzzing until 30 mins has passed.
You mean that one horde poster that you lot are carrying around on your shoulders, while ignoring all of the alliance that echoed that it is a player problem?
Look the troll is back. Make a rational case for why the cave rez SHOULDN’T be repaired then we’ll talk. All you seem to be able to do is dig up old threads and screech about perceived hypocrisy.
Spoken in Alt
I never made any such claim, and you have clearly been here long enough to know that.
and all you seem to do on this alt is toss around insults:
and irony encapsulated:
So no cave Rez until
If the horde are winning we push you back to your cave at around 30 minutes (this is the average time it takes horde to push alliance back to the bridge in the games I play) and now you have the cave Rez at 30 minutes making you impossible to beat (again, if alliance actually use their map advantages they have)
If the alliance are winning they have already passed IBGY and our cave Rez becoming available at 30 minutes helps us in no way whatsoever.
Changing it to only allow cave Rez after 30 minutes HEAVILY favors the alliance with current conditions and you know it, because by the time that 30 minutes comes around if horde are winning it helps alliance, if alliance are winning, it does nothing for the horde.
The map isn’t the issue with AV win rates. Sure it can be contributing to it, but it is most definitely not the primary factor.
If cave Rez is prevented it should be until no other GY is available. Not a time limit that would heavily favor the alliance because their cave benifits the back end of their defending locations, hordes is at the front end of their defending locations.
The time limitation was a random number I threw in based on the fact the most horde teams are capable of winning the entire match in 30 min. But I’m glad you’re finally starting to see the light.
You mean that alliance have their best part of their defending locations in the back of their defence while the horde have it in the front?
Ya, that’s been discussed before, both sides have a cave advantage at different places in their defenses, and with the win condition of the map ONLY being kill the final boss, the caves are balanced.
But keep acting like reinforcement mechanics balance changes were made because of a reason other than reinforcement mechanics.
Wow just gonna ignore the entire posts proving that to be complete nonsense and repeat your same false statements what shocker of a troll…
Both sides are no where near equal, one has no terrain advantage for offense, one side has no access to rams/raid boss/wing commanders, one side ALWAYS has the closest GY that spawns more people to defend, one side does not instantly lose if they lose that GY, one side does not stop having this advantage as soon as they push slightly past, one side doesnt have the cave spawn them in the wrong direction, one side doesnt have to abandon the previous GY of they want to use the choke point all those things are true for the horde at IBGY and not true at the bridge.
Which is why the ignore feature is a good thing. The forum is a much better place ever since I ignored several trolls such as Redheadchild.
Genuinely starting to wonder if this thread will actually survive to TBC without a Blue comment. Genuinely feels like they are just covering their ears with their hands in the meeting room and screaming NoChAnGeS just for the sake of it.
Why is adhering to a flawed design philosophy more important than repairing an unplayable piece of content?
They may very well not look further than the statistical history of the BG’s version in regard to win ratio.
Should the cave res mechanic be modified? Sure.
Is the cave res mechanic responsible for a swing of alliance dominating to a 99% loss rate between vanilla 1.12 AV? No.
They likely see people condoning not trying whatsoever, ignoring advantages, many leeching, AFKing, farming harpies, actually watching what alliance players are doing in the BG first hand, and have decided it’s not worth the effort.
to add, i just dont think this specific thread has been all that productive. the same 20 people make up probably 90% of the posts at this point, and a large quantity of posts ar incendanairy or troll accusations.
It has laid out the problem with AV in excruciating detail. This is the single best thread on the whole of the forums when it comes to laying out the problem with AV as well as proposing a reasonable solution. The problem with this thread is the few incessant deniers of reality who have been plaguing this thread with fabrications of reality like Ram Team 7 as a justification for leaving AV in an unplayable state.
Their ONLY reasonable argument is that Alliance won 15 years ago, so they can win today. And Alliance DO win today…in other regions of the world where the meta is both sides zerging. Any meta where the Horde defends IBGY will look completely different than 15 years ago, and for reasons that have been painstakingly laid out in this thread and literally hundreds of others. The math at IBGY is nigh-insurmountably stacked in Horde’s favor. Saying that Alliance won 15 years ago does not change this fact. The math at IBGY was nigh-insurmountably stacked in Horde’s favor 15 years ago as well, if only the Horde had known about it back then.
Their entire argument hangs by the single thread that Horde didn’t discover this meta during the very short window where this version of AV existed. Had they discovered this meta back then, their argument would be non-existent because Horde would have dominated AV simply due to the math at IBGY.
EDIT: And since Blizzard has demonstrated that they are willing to make changes under the justification that the original devs would have changed it if they had known (like the ectoplasmic distiller for example), it’s worth pointing out that if Horde had discovered the IBGY meta in Vanilla, the devs absolutely would have changed the map.
It likely will as it doesn’t negatively impact horde.
Laying out the same complaints ad nauseum does not impart greater weight to them, especially when you ignore every aspect that does not serve your agenda.
This is the kind of trolly garbage that likely makes blizzard ignore anything further. You lot have run that into the ground.
No, things like that were just elements of advantages that you handwave.
And continued to win throughout TBC, outside of a small period at the very beginning of the change to the win requirements: reinforcements. Beyond TBC alliance continued to dominate on even PS servers.
And you painstakingly refuse to acknowledge the bridge advantage, the cave position in relation to SPGY, the fact that the Icewing bunker “choke” ramp can be easily bypassed, the affect that relatively instant queues has on motivation, the undeniable number of leeches, AFKers, and cheerleaders of quitting.
This map is identical to the one from v1.8 through the end of vanilla. The “meta” you speak of is quite simply one side playing the BG as designed while the other willfully lies down.
Again, the “meta” is a direct result of alliance unwillingness to play the BG, using the advantages they have.
Hell, when someone brought up alliance respawn point at aid station when they die at SF, I pointed out what a huge broken mechanic THAT is, and was met with derision, argument just to be argumentative.
Many of us that you lot label trolls, would wholeheartedly support both the cave res mechanic being changed, as well as flipping the starting points randomly. What we are arguing against is the assertion that alliance is not causing the abysmal win rate.
This is yet another example of why blizzard likely ignores threads like this.
Bridge advantage is ruined by respawn order, and also does nothing to win the game. And also falls apart once Lok arrives.