AV Cave Rez situation

[Beautia-azuresong]

Misadventure and myself seem to be in agreement a lot lately.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Misadventure-herod

@Ziryus-doomhammer

It was reasonable at the time to think AV would be played as it was in vanilla. That obvsiouly ended up not being the case, and not just for AV.

And yet you f all all over yourself to argue against an early AV version. Backpedal more.

Weird it’s almost like an earlier version of AV would do nothing to prevent the problems we have today as the terrain issues are still there.

[Vince-pagle]

@Misadventure-herod

@Vince-pagle

Cherry picking posts from '19? I view it as a positive that people can change their opinions when presented with new information.

Really? You are seriously going to white knight that garbage?

Since when is being reasonable human being called white knighting? Situations change so opinions change. You’re the one with the problem being stuck on “well 15 years ago this meta” nonsense.

[Misadventure-herod]

Oh look, the false reporting brigade is once again at it.
I guess reasonable and civil discussion is still unwelcome.

[Vince-pagle]

@Misadventure-herod

I guess reasonable and civil discussion is still unwelcome.

@Misadventure-herod

Really? You are seriously going to white knight that garbage?

[Misadventure-herod]

And yet that post was not the one that was falsely flagged.
You were literally white knighting all of those direct quotes, in one fell swoop, handwaving them away by virtue of “people change opinions”.

[Vince-pagle]

People don’t change their opinions? You’re taking quotes from different periods in the game trying to discredit the poster. It’s a textbook ad hominem argument.

I doubt most people predicted back in the early days that AV would be in its current state yet you still bring up those contrasts.

Are you just angry that I invalidated all the work and effort you put into attempting to discredit someone? It had to be time consuming to juxtapose all those quotes.

[Misadventure-herod]

You discredited nothing. Zyrius in that thread which all of those come from, used many of those to argue against anything other than 1.12. He still to this day argues against any vanilla version beyond 1.12, while at the same time talking out of the other side of his mouth that 1.12 needs changes and fixes for the high loss rate, blaming the very version of the BG that he so often and passionately defends.

And here you are, willing to defend his hypocrisy. I guess being on the same side of an argument has it’s benefits.

[Vince-pagle]

I didn’t discredit your work, please read my post again. I used the word invalidate. Only thing that you’ve shown is a bunch of posts from '19 which doesn’t have the same context that we do now.

Not a single quote that you put there was recent. Cherry picking quotes made before the meta developed provides no value. Again, I understand you put a lot of work and effort into it. You might even be proud of your ‘gotcha’ quote thread but you did prove hypocrisy.

You’re arguing in bad faith yet bemoaning the lack of reasonable discourse. That’s the only hypocrisy I see here.

[Bodicca-westfall]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

It was reasonable at the time to think AV would be played as it was in vanilla. That obvsiouly ended up not being the case, and not just for AV.

And this is the reason they broke queue syncing. But rezzing at the gy’s?? Oh HELL NO!

[Scotpollard-westfall]

just won first AV calling strats

1h 23m

epic battle, everybody fighting, communicating, lots of twists and turns

was beautiful

[Scotpollard-westfall]

i can die happy now

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

You mean alliance can win if they actually PvP?!

Who woulda thought.

[Vince-pagle]

By the glory of the rams, he was able to win one. Look how happy he is! This must be an incredibly rare occurrence for him. Almost like its 1 in 100 odds.

Oh wait. It is 1 in 100 odds, what point were you trying to make? That the map is imbalanced?

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

That if alliance actually PvP they can win AV?

Considering 90% of alliance that que for AV are there to level or get reputation at the cost of their teams win conditions of course the winrate is low. Yet when they actually pvp as a majority they win. Who woulda thought.

[Vince-pagle]

Maybe there’s something about the map that makes it so Alliance doesn’t feel like queuing unless they’re chasing a PVE reward. Perhaps if we fixed this imbalance maybe people would queue just not because they need an offhand?

There’s a large population of players that enjoy PVP that aren’t grinding for r14, I wonder if a more balanced map would entice those players.

Just brainstorming ideas here. I’ve already jotted down “max ram” and “durdle on bridge” as a potential ideas too.

[Scotpollard-westfall]

they can win, but all odds are stacked against them. Horde have every advantage thinkable.

Honestly I wouldn’t have it any other way.

But yes, communication and PvP is paramount, and is more important than the map.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Scotpollard-westfall

they can win, but all odds are stacked against them. Horde have every advantage thinkable.

Honestly I wouldn’t have it any other way.

But yes, communica tion and PvP is paramount, and is more important than the map.

If one team has to be significantly better to have a chance of winning that is most definitely a problem with the map.

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

I agree that he’s a turkey

[Scotpollard-westfall]

i agree with you, but odds are, blizzard isn’t going to do anything to fix it

they may update the cave GY to only occur when no GYs, but even that is a longshot

I think we need to stop complaining so much about the map and just man up

if everyone just complains about the map and blames it for all of our losses, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, and we will never win

the amount of grinding and refining my strat took… most of the friction came from the player base… not the map itself.