AV Cave Rez situation

It would be because if the first clash happened on horde GY then horde would have the first defenders advantage.

However that’s not how the map is set up, it’s designed for alliance to be the first defending. Which also allows alliance to send the first stealth squad in but they don’t do that.

I personally would be fine with a random start location for a month to see how it effects win rates. It would likely still favor horde because alliance would roll over any time they got the north as their start and horde would always still try.

But we would definitely see much more of the north side winning, because a huge contributor to the alliance losing isn’t the map, it’s their misguided belief that the map is unbalanced.

There are bugs that should be fixed for sure, on both sides of the map, but that’s not the cause of the win rate issue.

I agree gy spawns are a problem, but as long as horde are soft capping SHGY before alliance even reach their first southern gy, alliance will struggle with offense. IWB choke is set up and ready to trap anyone who dies long before we reach IBGY. SFGY is probably softcapped too.

It’s a combination of things and it’s possible fixing the cave spawn will be enough, but I have my doubts. That and I’m just tired of playing every AV trapped behind IWB. I’d love for alliance to be able to have an offensive strat that has a reasonable success rate.

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So it was fixed… Thanks for proving my point.

Then after they nerfed pre-mades 2 times.

If blizzard wants to balance stuff fine, but the crap title they give stuff when they want to rebalance is silly. Don’t say stuff is an “exploit” Everytime you want to balance something, when that’s literally how it was for Vanilla and the 2 expansions after.

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I’m going to say this is nicely as I can, but I’ve lost all patience with your lame defense of this map. Horde are capping SHGY long before alliance can cap IBGY. That’s a head start. That’s also an early arrival at SHGY when horde get there 30 seconds sooner than alliance reach IBGY.

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And why are you not defending with part of your team???

Do you know how PvP works?

Oh that’s right, your still thinking of AV as a pve map where the race is the only important part, if your not playing pve rep farm simulator…

It’s not a race, it’s a war scale PvP BG.

Stop treating it as something else.

Horde do not soft cap SPGY before alliance can get to IBGY unless alliance are LETTING the horde do it.

AV IS NOT A PVE MAP

Yeah I understand. It’s just gotten to the point where the map is so glaringly imbalanced that it feels trivial when I win and embarrassing when I lose as a horde player.

It shouldn’t be that way, and the current meta is nearly as bad for horde as it is for alliance. I just wished more would understand that.

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It didn’t stop premades from leaving the game after they found out it only had 20 of their premade in it and still resulting in a dead AV

It didn’t stop premades from mass reporting pug players when the premade did get most of their premade in.

Premading was NOT the exploit. The exploit was how they were behaving after their premade attempt failed. The exploit was them abusing the report feature. The exploit was them leaving an AV to cause it to die or start with to few of players.

I’ve played a few AV back before they fully broke premades. After the fix.

The game would start with 35-40 alliance. 2 seconds I to the game starting 10+ alliance would leave. I had that happen 3 times. And again this was after the fix.

Premades were exploiting the system by intentionally being scummy about it if they didn’t get their way.

It wasn’t horde tears that got premades broken. It was alliance tears from the pugs.

AV is having issues because of player behavior. Not the map. Keep trying to blame the map when alliance are not even playing AV as a PvP map. They themselves have said it’s a pve map…

Wonder why Alliance stopped trying to “win” the game…

It’s almost like trying EVERY strat for the last 8 months and still LOSING has turned the alliance meta Into something else.

Wonder what made them lose for 8 months? Maybe the map might be imbalanced.

You can’t be this simple minded bro, you just can’t be. AV isn’t some hardcore military RTS, there’s literally on so many ways to go about getting your team to Drek or Vann. There isn’t more than a handfull of ways to work yourself south. You have no insight on anything Alliance haven’t tried for thousands of AV games over the course of 8 months.

Exploring the win possibilities of AV isn’t that in depth, there is no secret strat… You’re really gonna sit here and tell us there are strats that haven’t been used yet??

If only alliance can rush into 1 graveyard all game without playing defense just like Horde.

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If you actually believe that an entire faction having a 99% losing record is because of “too many chiefs or none at all” you may actually be as dumb as these people are making you look…

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Strongest choke in the game? Have you not been farmed on the hill directly south of SH? Farm more effective as it has literally 1 entrance and exit, unlike SH where the horde hit you from the front and rear via the hill near balinda…You are not an alliance player, stop hiding behind that lvl 35…

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Um.

This is a lvl 10 alt that will never be name changed nor realm transfered, exc. So it doesn’t bug out the post history like I’ve had happen before.

I’m not claiming to play alliance in classic, I played alliance in vanilla and the lvl 35 is not me…

Now that that is cleared up. I’m not referring to SH as the strongest choke point in the game… I’ve said it multiple times it is the bridge. And the backdoors have been fixed so it is effective again. But the alliance are not using it to ANY degree.

Of course the map feels unbalanced when you don’t use any of the map advantages your own faction has …

In the last 20 AV I have played I have seen one attempt to aoe the bridge from the alliance. And that was AV weekend, when the better alliance players came back.

Wanna know what happened?

The 10-15 alliance that were defending the bridge held off the 20-25 horde trying to push it as the rest of the alliance was in the southern map causing mischief with rotating captures.

Finally the horde summoned ice daddy and had about 15 horde defending ice daddy summon and we made our final push. Just to lose with the dwarf at 20% because after we summoned the ice daddy alliance made a mad dash for our final boss as we had defending horde protect the summon instead of our boss because we prioritized our push over defending and lost the battle in a very close AV.

Was one of the best AV I had in a very long time.

Alliance are not using their map advantages so yes with that in mind it seems to favor horde.

But if we both are given a dollar and you ignore that you have a dollar it sure would seem like I was given more money than you.

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Horde are not able to contest SHGY before alliance get there…

I’m confused.

Shameless fix GY resurrection order plug.

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No doubt you’re confused. I mean it’s not like horde have to defend anything that early in the game.

If alliance reached IBGY at the same time as horde and it resulted in horde being trapped behind IBGY 90% of the time, one cave being closer than the other would suddenly matter to you.

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GY resurrection order largely solves this imbalance.

Alliance will have their legendary bridge defense back, and the horde will only resurrect in the cave once the relief hut is taken. Frost wolf GY would be relevant again for defense, and SP defenders wouldn’t be kicked to the cave when SP falls.

The alliance losing the fight at SHGY with NPC and bunker support is not solvable with a change in cave location. Would they suddenly win a fight in the field if we clashed there instead?

Not opposed to changing cave location btw.

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I was confused because your wording didn’t make sense.

Regardless, we can move the cave back that’s fine. I just want good AV matches again. But We would crush the alliance at IBGY choke, especially with tower and lieutenant support. It would allow allies a chance at SFGY though, and that may make a difference.

Fixing the resurrection order is paramount.

This falsehood gets no more true the higher rate it is repeated. There are literally 2 ways to the end of that “choke”: up the ramp directly, and off of the hill from above it from the east. If you cannot manage to break through such a “choke” with two lines of attack on it (one from ABOVE the choke), then it is not a map issue it is a player coordination issue.

There is no legitimate reason you should EVER lose the battle at SHGY. You literally spawn right there, have bunker support, elite guards and roaming elite lieutenants (as well as the charge-stun mobs you choose to mock instead of acknowledge)

Yes, it absolutely does if it in fact exists, and I have repeatedly stated as much (I however have seen no evidence of it myself, as no alliance are willing to record it) Hell, your buddy shrinkydink calls it irrelevant. The hell is that all about?

Again, I have voiced support of the cave respawn system adjustment.

It takes 2 alliance to get through IB choke at the beginning (when there are virtually no horde down south) to cap the southern towers and GYs. 1 to kite the guards and one to stand there and soft cap (NO I DO NOT ADVISE STANDING THERE UNTIL HARD CAP) and then immediately moving to the next one. Sometimes you will earn a hard cap, sometimes you won’t, but EVERY time you attempt it, it takes a slew of horde from the north to backtrack. If horde is ressing in the cave, what do you think they will do if both IB is soft capped as well as a slew of their southern towers and other GYs? AGAIN, if you cannot see the value in that alone, it is solidly a player problem.

I RARELY see alliance trying to draw the horde players back south by soft capping like above. I just cannot fathom how that strategy, which literally takes a mere 2 alliance players to do, is poopoo’d on.

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uh, of course there is. alliance won for 15 years, until horde developed a new strat during classic wow.

new strats can still be found, if you are looking hard enough that is.

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Horde zergged just like Alliance.

And yet no one has given one single strat that can work, other than zergging IBGY and hoping Horde are comatose.

Anyone that makes a post like you just did is totally unfamiliar with AV. TOTALLY. But then, as Horde you really don’t need to know jack about it.

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Total nonsense. Alliance can and have held horde at SHGY for over an hour if all they want is a stalemate. Alliance can and would win many clashes in FoS too. We win team fights now. It’s not about overpowering the other side as much as one side having to multi-task while the other side just keeps throwing bodies at a gy til they get it.

You’re looking at brute force with no thought to strategy. Both are important in objective based PvP.