So what has already happened?
And didn’t help at all.
It would be like them saying oops, Rams are supposed to have 500 more health.
Omg alliance will auto win now!!
Ram Team 7 buffs!!
Irrelevant is irrelevant.
1 Like
Hey dont forget we can totally win because we can stall at SP because its such a strong defensive spot, too bad its vulnerable to aerial assaults unlike IBGY and has easy access to mounted assualt and lok summons unlike IBGY and gives the offense a pretty major terrain advantage unlike IBGY and has no bunkers/towers to defend it unlike IBGY and if it falls the game is over unlike IBGY. But hey its the “strongest” choke in the game and can win the game for alliance if we just use it… i mean just ignore the bottom 3/4 of the map that is horde controlled and its almost like you are on dreks doorstep.
2 Likes
You were only able to “premade” because BGs were server specific. Also, no you didn’t.
Yes I did.
Infact later on in TBC and WOTLK they made an actual addon for it. It literally did everything for you.
Premading AV was in Vanilla along with TBC and WOTLK. I can’t speak for after that.
1 Like
Because as long as horde have an early arrival at SHGY, alliance offense will be trapped behind IWB even if we spawned at SPGY instead of AS. Horde are shutting our offense down before we even softcap a southern gy. Combine that with rezzing in weird places or against horde rezzing at twice our rate and even closer to the contested gy than we are and it’s just a free horde win.
All these pro responses to split up and take another gy while holding SHGY are garbage considering it’s only necessary for one faction to do that because of the early arrival of horde to SH.
The SFGY rez needs fixed. The cave rez needs fixed, but taking any southern gy relies on getting reinforcements past IWB and that’s not going to change as long as horde have a 30 second head start on soft capping SHGY.
Right, they made an addon that they then broke. Also, no, you didn’t in Vanilla. Just stop trying to push your agenda becasue you don’t like AV.
You admit it was possible in Vanilla, then doubt I did it??
I was on Dark Iron in vanilla and we sure did do it.
The addon wasn’t broken until much much later.
We pre-maded AV for Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK.
Now it’s an “exploit”. Seems anything Blizzard wants to change they can just tag it with the old “exploit” and change the game.
2 Likes
You keep saying early arrival.
Alliance get there first.
And it means you have the help of the NPCs when the horde crash into that GY. Letting you easily win the initial clash.
That’s an advantage…
I’m sorry you can’t seem to understand simple concepts of being the first defenders helps you because you get the backup of your NPCs.
Alliance are always claiming they wipe the horde multiple times before their overwhelmed and lose the GY. That’s because of the defenders advantages alliance have.
Yet they never use these to help them on offense.
Having two people stealth past into IBGY and soft cap it makes the horde stop to defend. One person aggros the NPC on the flag, the other soft caps it.
This delays horde reinforcement and let’s alliance go soft cap SFGY and let’s them have a good chance of hard capping it.
After that they have 2 close GY to offer a 20/Rez option and can then contest the cave Rez by soft capping IBGY.
The two stealth players should be going farther south to just soft cap objectives to keep the horde on their toes.
Now what does this mean?
It means a premade of TWO players could make the difference for alliance wining AV and they could do it without ever fighting a single player. Now why is it not done?
Because doing this would be playing the map as PvP war scale BG. Alliance don’t do that…
It was an exploit because premades were abusing it to kick non premades or leave AV with dead start games.
Even if alliance had 25-30 in it after the 15-10 premades that got in left it left the alliance with at least 25% less players than the horde.
It was the behavior of the premade meta alliance players that was Exploitive. And that’s why it got changed. It’s why the report function got broken. It’s why pug alliance never learned how to play AV. Because it was premade or rot.
I premade in AV all the time during Vanilla. There was a janky addon that was little more than a single bit of script for it, but it was usable and semi effective.
3 Likes
Wrong.
They fixed that also with the pre-mades in a seperate patch.
They added a mechanic to AV with the patch that made it so games wouldn’t start if you didn’t have 40 people.
They did that fix along with breaking pre-mades the first time. When it didn’t work, they added another patch to break pre-mades again.
Was no “exploit”. We did it in vanilla and the 2 expansions after.
Good try tho!
4 Likes
“We’re fixing a setting that allowed the battleground to start with as few as 20 players on a team.”
It can still start with less than 40 people.
It was just bumped up to need more than the previous 20.
Also I like how you just ignored the part of premades mass reporting people that were pugs.
Good try though!
You mean alliance reach alliance objectives before horde? Who’d have thunk it?!
Just stop with your constant defending of a badly designed version of AV. It’s been debunked repeatedly and you just keep defending it.
3 Likes
Yes, I agree a timer should probably be added to the horde gate opening at the start of the match (to even up the starting advantage that horde gets by reaching Bal fast).
But, the respawn changes/fixes (to the caves and SF GY) alone would probably make the game reasonably winnable.
I’ve seen a lot of games especially on AV weekend where alliance get 30+ to IB GY and try to hold it but just can’t overcome 15-20 horde hitting them 3 or 4 times from the cave.
It really does feel like that is the absolute main thing that has to change.
1 Like
Cave location is fine.
Graveyard resurrection order is wrong, and untrue to vanilla. THAT is the problem.
How blizzard hasn’t figured this out yet is shocking… Or maybe it isn’t these days, expectations are low.
3 Likes
There is no headstart on softcapping SHGY
Alliance are there by the time horde get there.
You make wild claims and when I correct them you try to spin the yarn a different way to make it sound like your still right when you are not.
Divide and conquer is a very common strategy to win a war. Attacking supply lines is a common strategy to win a war.
Alliance do neither of those things and wonder why they lose…
So why do you think it’s fair the middle of the map is SHGY?
Would it be fair if the middle of the map was IBGY?
Would it be fair if the alliance cave was also 10 seconds away from SHGY while we also met at IBGY for the first engagement?
I’m fine with GY Rez getting looked into and possibly fixed. But at the same time alliance are complaining about aspects of the map that are not the issue.
Cave location gives alliance the advantage of being the defending party at first clash, this means they have time to get into formations, positions stealth on the sides to ambush healers, have NPC bonus damage, exc.
They use none of these things.
They have the strongest choke point in the game reinforced with having a GY Rez and a cave Rez right next to it. But they use none of those advantages to help them and blame the map.
The only thing I could see needing fixing is the GY Rez location selection based on what is owned and where you died. The druids might need a pathing update to prevent bugs that some alliance flame they have (and the summoning not going off bug). That’s it. The backdoor got fixed in both bases, which help alliance far more than it helped horde.
Both sides have a massive defenders advantage with cave placement, one in the front of defending and one in the back of defending which is compounded to be more effective because of having a better choke point, more NPC coverage, a second Rez location that can bring the Rez number up to 30 per cycle depending on death locations, and being able to easily sneak around the horde by going through the valley, rezing in the cave and attacking them from behind or even rezing in the cave and trinketing into ASGY to fortify that sides defenders.
Alliance do not use what map advantages they have though, which is why fixing the issues I listed will likely have no real effect.
They play the game as a pve rep farm simulator and that is the primary reason they lose.
1 Like