<3 you
/10char
You are comparing a first priority GY target on horde side to a game is already lost anyway GY on alliance side
3 Likes
So, you can just say anything you want apparently because you can just hand-wave any rebuttal away saying âitâs not meant to be a mirrored mapâ?
5 Likes
Think about how that would play out.
Alliance hold a couple GYs down south, and horde has every GY soft capped to the north. Alliance players who die defending their base suddenly get booted to the extreme other part of the map?
At first glance âno other GYsâ sounds nice, but in practice it would be a mess. It would have to be more like âno original faction GYsâ
this isnât even the AV map that was there for the majority of vanilla.
5 Likes
so⌠you donât spawn at the cave GY if you control any of your factions home graveyards, fixed.
2 Likes
This is what I intended. I clarified the OP. This should only apply to defensive players
(i.e. horde on south half of the map and alliance on north half of the map). Offensive players on both sides should be respawning normally at offensive GYs or nearest defensive GY or cave only if no other GYs are controlled.
No, and my point is that ânot mirroredâ does not mean ânot balancedâ.
Each team has a decent choke.
Each team has a pitifully easy GY to take.
Each team has a GY that is has fast access from their cave spawn.
Two things that are not balanced, off the top of my head, are the relative closeness of SF to the horde cave, and the much more easily defended alliance base.
AV was designed to be more like an open world zone than the other two, that were designed to play more like unreal tournament maps.
The original rundown on what AV was to be:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050206222449/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20050206044731/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/battlegrounds-part2.html
Particularly interesting is the parts that clearly show that they intended this BG to last a loooooong time. To the point where buildings slowly repaired over time, more quickly via mine supplies turnins.
Itâs more like 30 seconds.
h ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp7AVGgw61I
1 Like
No he is one of the horde that thinks 99% win rate comes from horde just being better players.
3 Likes
There were three major versions of AV in vanilla, the first version and this one were in for approximately the same amount of time and thatâs longer than the middler version. So no itâs false to say that this was not in vanilla for very long.
In the case of AV not mirrored has resulted in not balanced.
The location of various chokes gives horde a major edge.
AV was booming back in the premade days, now theres 2 games going at a timeâŚsad to see
Sounds like youâve learned something today. The cave rez is obviously not âbalancedâ because of where on the map it occurs for both sides and to draw false equivalencies like that to try to elevate your argument really doesnât do you any favors.
Maybe next time just think a little bit more before making one of your âIâm smarter than youâ remarks.
The people who wanted to enjoy Classic should enjoy Classic then. Not try to turn it into something it never was.
Sir. I can assure you that the horde rez cave situation is the single most problematic thing that exists in current AV map. I have been in multiple games where we have decimated the horde and soft capped IBGY with 0 issues. But the horde you kill just keep coming back in waves of more and more every minute while the alliance that die have a good distance ride to get back to help and the ones that are still alive are slowly running out of resources. So you end up losing to attrition having to kill the same horde players over and over and over again.
11 Likes
It is currently something it never was.
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While I agree that balance doesnt require a mirror map, the truth is that we have metrics in life using statistics to determine whether a situation is imbalanced or not. We automatically rule out the racist reasoning of course, we do not say that PoC do worse on tests because of race, but because of systematic and structural imbalances. Access to education/resources ect.
We currently have a situation where when random horde players are pitted against random alliance players the horde players win 99 percent of the time.
This is a textbook case of imbalance. It is statistically near impossible for a balanced map to have win rates this skewed, and arguably impossible for something with a sample size as large as wow av games. Even if horde players were assumed to be twice as good, on a balanced map, they would only win 75% of the time. You have to assume that the average horde player is 100 times more skilled than the average alliance player in order to justify conclusion that the map is balanced.
To your specific argument though about the equivalence of of IGBY an SPGY, the primary difference is this. When horde lose IGBY they rez in there cave. If the Alliance lose SH they do not rez in there cave. They rez at SPGY. SPGY is campable, on the highground and fully covered by Blizzard. Cave rezzers cannot be camped at spawn. There are numerous advantages to going to your cave after losing a single GY, and the cave being so much closer to the center of the map. The advantages of the alliance are insignificant in sight of these facts. If the advantages of the alliance had offset the advantages of the horde, then that would be reflected in the data: the data; however, says clearly that the map blatantly favors the horde.
9 Likes
Itâs 1.12 AV. And itâs hot garbage. I said that when they announced this version. I made a hundred posts that this was the wrong choice. And now all the people who argued with me are saying how bad it is. WellâŚthis is what you wanted.
If it had been 1.7 AV it would be a totally different story.
1 Like
1.7 would do nothing to prevent the issues weâre having right now. The issues with the chokes at IBGY and SHGY are exactly the same as is the cave rez situation.