But just throwing our hands up now and saying “oh well” is not acceptable. The map is broken and both factions lose here. The change I believe would make the most sense and be the best compromise with #nochanges would be to make caves only respawn when the team has no other GY. It would address the issues at IBGY and SPGY and make the map much more balanced without actually changing anything about the map layout.
I’ve got 30 replies in that thread. I’m well aware of it. And what you find acceptable or not is irrelevant. Vanilla means Vanilla. So you can’t say, “We really want to play Classic. Oh, I don’t like this…change it!” It is what it is.
And by the way:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_2.3.0
Players will no longer be sent to their starting tunnels on death unless that team controls no graveyards in the battleground.
It gets changed…in TBC. And the patch after that the cave gets moved south. The BG existed nearly three years before it was moved. Players dealt with it for three years. So…deal with it again.
Why is “deal with it” the solution here when we have 15 years of data and knowledge that the cave respawn has to be fixed at some point?
Why wait a full year to fix the only BG that’s favorable to pugs?
There’s no good reason to wait on that change when Blizzard is already applying terrain fixes and other PVP fixes like preventing players from being MC’ed out of WSG.
So you don’t want a TBC solution, would you be fine with a completely new solution? I don’t see you arguing to revert the changes blizzard has already made to AV in classic.
We’ll agree to disagree then. But advocating for a situation that is a loss for everyone just to uphold some mythical ideology that the code must not be changed is something I can’t stand for and will continue to oppose until TBC launches.
What changes have they made? Within the actual BG what’s different? Anything? Is the queuing system different? If so, obviously it should be consistent with how it was in Vanilla.
Nope. Location doesn’t matter a bit, as both chokes exist on the way to the ultimate target. If this was the version with reinforcements it would matter. This version without reinforcements, nope. Not acknowledging a thing does not make that thing cease to exist.
Same answer to you.
How is that any different than horde attempting to take SPGY?
If you haven’t figured it out, there are so many horde that the queue times are long. So long, that the horde kill everything that moves while in the BG.
It doesn’t matter where the horde spawn, they send an army to kill the 5 that made it south.
Horde AB queues the past 2 weeks have been under 5 minutes at various times of the week.
I’ve even had near instant horde AB queues at times. WSG queues aren’t that much longer.
Yes, there’s more horde PVPers than alliance, but a huge part of the AV queue problem is that alliance players are not queueing unless it’s AV weekend or they’re just a rep grinder.
I believe AV queues would come down to 30-40 minutes (and sub 30 minutes on AV weekends) if the cave rez situation is fixed and the map is balanced.
AV PVPers would actually have a reason to queue for it if there’s a winnable path.
Who cares? At least the guy has a big enough brain to have been swayed by evidence since then that it’s broken. You and Misadventure should take notes.
You wish to bring in metrics and statistics, but ignore one of the largest: alliance players tending to not desire PVP. It was shown in raw server type ratios, it was demonstrated on BALANCED realms during P2, it is demonstrated in AV. Add to that a constant drone of a number of alliance players who live for nothing other than to try to convince the rest of their faction that they cannot win, and that it is the fault of the map, the fault of racials, the fault of blizzard liking horde better, basically the alliance player version of Al Sharpton.
And then there are the ignored metrics and statistics, such as the alliance win rate during the very same version of AV during vanilla, and later through TBC besides a relative blip at the very start of the reinforcement mechanic, prior to them moving the cave to compensate because horde were getting quicker points via Balinda death.
And actual pre-classic history shows this to not be the case.
Because at this point the horde have already won the game. Taking SPGY is just a matter of time at this point. Not to mention that ally spawn 10 per rezz wave to defend a graveyard in a game that is already lost while horde spawn 20 per rezz wave to defend a GY that is pivotal to the outcome of the game.
I said 1.12 was broken over a year ago. What do you want? I’m in that thread arguing with trolls Galdor and Eloraell like usual, and Wall of No Ziryus. I went through this over and over and over again.
Well when they rereleased the 1.5 version the speed bumps did nothing to prevent the current situation. So a version with less speed bumps would do even less.
The fact that Alliance que up to PvP at lower rates does not matter. 40 random players vs 40 random players is the question. You have a larger sample size of horde players that is it. Anyone with a basic grasp of statistics knows that sample size doesn’t matter so long as it is large enough to be sufficiently random, and that is the case in the AV.
The excuse of horde players pvp more is the same as saying horde players are just better which is simply not the case, and I already addressed that in my post.
There is no justification for a win/loss rate of 1/100. Only discrimination/imbalance gets to that.