AV Cave Rez situation

Hey now, youre the one with the theory, burden of proof is all on you. Supposedly the map is directly responsible for a disparate win rate and the fix is centered around the location of the horde cave. This has yet to be demonstrated to any reasonable degree and the actual AVs themselves blatantly contradict map theory as presented on this forum.

What I see is one team is full of nutbags who will wait 2 and half hours to get into an AV against a bunch of instaqueues who only want fast rep for the quick and dirty epics.

Even so I did lose 3 out of 9 games this past AV weekend by BETTER alliance teams so I think I found out where the problem is.

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Anyone who says the cave at alliance is equal to the hordes is so beyond stupid that literally nothing in the universe can help you.

Alliance lose sh gy? Game over endless choke.
Horde lose ib gy? Lol who cares just rez in cave 20 a time to take it.

These are not remotely the same wtf

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Not 2 different games, both are world of Warcraft

You and him have a 95% win rate in a battleground that’s pug vs pug, and you think it’s NOT the map?? How laughable when he is clearly trash at PvP.

Show me a 95% win rate in AB or wsg pug vs pug.

They share the same name, but are fundamentally different. Retail arena and Classic AV are not comparable at all.

A statistic that I have yet to see any credible and official data on.

Let’s play pretend and say that the 95% statistic that is randomly thrown out is true. I’d argue that there might be a slight map advtanage, but that it is vastly exaggerated and that many other factors are at play that also contribute to it, such as faction morale, racials, horde rankers playing AV, etc. It’s reductive to just blame the map.

A slight map advantage isn’t a just cause for a rebalance. Otherwise, we would see class rebalance as well.

Show me proof of a 95% win rate in AV first.

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People had add-ons that showed there win/loss.

People posted on these very forums screen shots of it, people were 1-90,3-100.

Heck look at some of the other posts from AV weekend where people go 1-40 or 2-30.

The facts are there.

And no it’s not a “slight” advantage. We are the SAME PLAYER BASE. The bad players on Alliance are also on hordes you didn’t roll a horde toon and automatically become good at the game.

You’re blind if you think a 95% win rate in a pug vs pug game is somehow because the other team is just THAT GOOD all the time.

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Wasn’t the map in vanilla and 15 years of private server AV. But keep ignoring that historical fact. Better to bring up arena rating from a completely different game, as that surely has relevance.

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We are talking IWB not IBGY which is a horde choke to keep alliance north not an alliance choke that protects SHGY, pay attention.

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It does, it shows how good the people are who have magical 95% win rates.

Rag also took 155 days to kill in Vanilla, remind me how long he lived in Classic?

Even your boy Red has stated AV was played differently in Vanilla, but you keep bringing the same trash argument up. We all get it, we won in vanilla because we all rushed. It’s no secret, we all rushed to last boss in Vanilla.

Keep bringing it up as if it’s a favorable argument for you, it’s not.

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Keep ignoring the “and 15 years of private server AV” part.

Yeah, alliance in vanilla did not lie down in the highway, allowing traffic to run them over, all the while blaming the potholes.

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No horde just weren’t swerving to hit them in vanilla.

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I just can’t wait for TBC to come out to be rid of you.

I truly hope a lot of these pro AV horde players go to TBC so I can expose them in arena.

I can’t wait.

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Really I am delusional… ok lets take a quick look at IBGY vs SPGY

Flanks are available at both GYs…
Defense has open flanks available at IBGY, Offense does not.
Offense has flanks available at SPGY, Defense does not.

Terrain advantage…
IBGY fairly neutral terrain except when horde control IBGY then horde have a slight advantage.
SPGY offense have multiple flanks and high ground positions giving them easy and safe AoE locations on a small valley with 1 exit that alliance spawn in, pretty big terrain advantage for Horde.

Ram/Wolf riders…
When fighting at SP alliance have to bring rams through the horde lines after taming them, and alliance have to sneak past 2 horde chokes to get to the wolves for pelts.
When fighting at IBGY horde have free access to taming wolves which are much faster to do because they dont have to run around a mountain and free access to rams because the rams are south of the conflict point.

Air commanders
Alliance commanders do not attack IBGY, and would have to be escorted past 2 horde choke points.
Horde commanders are south of conflict point and attack SPGY and DB if used

Lok/Ivus
Ivus summoned in sight of IBGY and a short jump down from GY to get to the summon to interrupt it, bugs out much easier than Lok.
Lok summoned on Horde side of FoS well out of sight of alliance and south of a strong choke point for the Horde.

Towers/Bunkers
Towers assaulting any Alliance who are comming back to fight at IBGY and in range of any Horde if alliance push forward.
No bunkers attacking Horde coming up on SPGY, Bunkers past bridge do nothing because bridge is in wrong direction and as soon as SPGY is capped all alliance spawn in the wrong direction allowing Horde free access to AS and alliance base.

But please do go on about how a choke point that is never in play because its never in the path of conflict is the best choke, despite basically every aspect of the map showing that Horde have crazy advantages that are nowhere even close to being matched by anywhere for the Alliance.

Vanilla winrates are irrelevant, one people were bad and had very understanding of how to play properly, also gear disparities were much greater because not everyone was full clearing all raids every week, and alliance had pallies making pve progression much easier for alliance giving them pretty decent gear advantages, then you had the fact that Horde was the side with the instant queues it was in there benefit to not play defense and have fast games, horde can choose to not defend and lose alliance cannot choose to defend and win. Then you have the fact that we do not have accurate numbers on winrates for vanilla and most people have 15 year old memories of a a single servers experience or a bit of a few servers experience.

See I played horde in vanilla and there were a LOT of horde afkers and fishers back then, and even still wins were fairly common. Sure the alliance may have won more but it was closer to 60/40 or 70/30 AT WORST which is a FAR cry from 95/5 thats the difference between winning 1/3 games and 1/20 games.

As to the supposed Alliance winning AV on private servers… that is also irrelevant because you have no evidence of it, and even if you do there we have no idea what strategies were used, what changes to the map were made, what faction queues were like. Private servers are even more irrelevant than vanilla information.

But go ahead and ignore all this like you have all the other actual evidence that proves you wrong.

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This BG is so busted, I imagine it can’t be fun even for you guys.

It really makes me sad to see threads like this, where key issues are very eloquently described by passionate players only to be blatantly ignored by Blizzard.

I swear, the only reason this company is getting money from me right now is because I get to raid AQ and 40 man Naxxramas. Otherwise I wouldn’t be giving them a single dime.

edit:

Directed to @Hawne

Ignore the trolls @Drinknblink

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I didn’t do arenas during TBC. It was an asinine concept. If I want PVP in a box, I play Unreal Tournament or ArmA.

You’ve got a real weird flex with this arena tripe in threads about AV. Really bizarre.

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If he really thinks arena in wow is skillful game, he’s an idiot. WoW is a pve game not a pvp game. “Elite” pvpers are just people who cant git gud at actual pvp games.

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AV is a box.

Trash players can’t get good at arenas.

It is.

Which is why you will never break 1800.

There’s no arena in classic wow, hun. Git gud.

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Believe me I know.

Which is why all of you will be hiding in TBC.

You’re already hiding rofl.

AV was designed to mimic an open world zone. If you cannot differentiate the two, good grief.

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