Except they weren’t replaced. Why else do you think your queues went from 40-50 minutes to 1 hr 10? It was literally the same players who had been queuing all along without the rush Drek premades. When a portion of them gave up, your queues went up again because guess what? We weren’t replaced either.
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So when a point that completely shatters the idea that horde are better at pvp in general is given it doesn’t matter?
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It is now snowman season, quit with the strawmen.
Okay, now explain why alliance who can do just fine in WSG/AB magically lose in AV.
Your rules no strawmen.
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Reading is hard. Replaced means different things right? In this discussion “replaced” means “replaced within an individual game.” It doesn’t mean “an additional Alliance player who wasn’t previously queuing decided to queue right as the rankers left.”
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Break it down. Let’s say that there were 1000 players Alliance side queuing prior to the premade changes. That’s 25 games worth of players. Let’s say of those 1000 players 600 of them are “good” players. That’s 24 out of 40 players in each AV is good. Now let’s say 100 of those 1000 players left after the premades were killed and of those 100 that 85 of them were good. That lowers the “good” player base from 600/1000 to 515/900 dropping the number of “good” players per game from 24 to 20.4 (so 20 or 21 per game). The 900 players drops the number of games to 22/23 depending on the time of day, but the number of good players queuing on the Alliance side drops from 24 to 20/21. You are telling me that doesn’t matter?
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I don’t recall making a point saying Horde are better at PVP than Alliance. I recall saying that the Horde queuing for AV are typically better than the Alliance queuing for AV unless it is AV weekend. That’s a pretty big difference.
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Sure it does, but why those players left matters quite a bit and that is what you seem to be discounting.
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Except I explicitly stated why they left. They left because Blizzard broke premades. They left before anyone had any inkling there might be some imbalance in the map.
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Yet alliance pugs in WSG/AB do just fine against horde pugs, so it’s not a premade vs pug issue.
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I may have stumbled into the same game as a premade 6 times over the two months they existed. I was playing games with the same players that were still there when premades left. Do you honestly believe the players who stayed were in the same games as ranking premades? Premades left and the games that they opened up went with them.
You pulled my comment out as wrong and it is not. It was the same players because we were not part of the premade groups to begin with.
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You keep ignoring my statements and making up some false equivalence between AB/WSG pretending that the players queuing for both are in some way equal. They aren’t. They weren’t in January last year and things have gotten progressively worse since then. It isn’t a good point. It has never been a good point.
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It IS wrong. Just because some of the premade players remained doesn’t mean they ALL did. My queue times going from 40-50 mins 1 day to 1h 10mins to 1h 20mins the very next day are enough to say that a good portion of those players did, in fact, leave.
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What should have happened is that premades were killed and those rankers were distributed among the open games. What actually happened was that they left, there were fewer games, and probably 10% of your best players were no longer in AV. So yeah, I am saying your point is trash because it IS trash. You being in denial that 10% of your best players leaving wouldn’t have a massive impact on the talent disparity between the two factions at the time is laughable.
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Why is the point that alliance pugs do just fine against horde pugs in WSG/AB not a good point?
Because it shows horde are not just better at pvp and means that the issues with AV are in fact map based? Yes that torpedoes the argument that the map is fine(which you’ve admitted it’s not) and shows horde do not just try harder. But it’s not important because horde super awesome they zug zug.
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What’s trash is that you think you know what happened to alliance as a horde player. Your queues went up because ranking premades left. They were their own system that rarely intermingled with the rest of us. They had no bearing on the quality of pug players.
When the pug players who were sick of the map imbalance left, your queues reached the level they are now.
I used to respect your opinion on most things. You’re straight up wrong on this one.
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It is a bad point because it is irrelevant. The players who queue for both factions are not the same. The reasons why have been discussed. The map being a good part of the reason why some of the best Alliance players won’t queue AV. It doesn’t torpedo the argument that the map is fine. It doesn’t even provide any semblance of reasoning for why the map might be part of the problem. All it does is highlight that the players queuing for the various BGs aren’t the same. That alone doesn’t mean anything. It DOES mean we need to explore why they aren’t though and that’s a good place to start. Map imbalance is definitely one of those reasons. It isn’t the only reason, but anyone saying the map doesn’t play into that decision making is wrong.
Another lie. They dont, and its typical of them to collapse onto stables around the 1200 mark.
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I’ve seen horde do the same thing at farm. I’ve seen horde turtle their flag room in WSG ‘cause they’re getting farmed if they leave and they’re down 2 flags. Horde or alliance doesn’t matter. Player attitude is the same when one side dominates.
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Weird it’s almost like you don’t realize that those players will go back to AV on AV weekend and the win rates still don’t normalize to what they are in the other BG’s.
Weird almost like it’s a map issue not a player issue.
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They didn’t interact with the rest of you, but their approach specifically altered how Horde played the map. That’s one major aspect that came out of the premades. But even ignoring that part, those players should have been forced into games with the rest of the Alliance pugs. You can’t tell me that getting 3-4 on average good players into the AV pug channel wouldn’t have been a boon. It would have been. But instead of getting 3-4 good players all that happened was that there were fewer games on the whole and a lot of the talent that should have been on your side wasn’t there.
Where were these players before January? Find me a single post that said there was a map imbalance Alliance side prior to premades getting killed. I am dying to see it. Because that’s what you are trying to make me believe: that the pug AV Alliance players weren’t losing at a 70-80% clip before the rankers left. I don’t recall posts from Alliance AV pugs saying “we need a map change because we rarely win with the current map.” Find me that post.
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But you won’t find that post, so I guess I will approach it differently. What was your win% prior to premades being killed? You say you were a pug at the time, so enlighten us all. How often did you win in AV?
Except I am not wrong on this. If map imbalance was a well known thing prior to the rankers leaving, we would have seen post after post about it. We didn’t.
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