Ok, time stamp it for me when he specifically talks about the bots. The leeching. The rep farming. Or even the rampant amount of players afk, and I’ll give him another view.
And no queue syncing wasn’t a thing for most of vanilla, because the games were server specific. You just selected what number av you wanted to join and wait.
Crossrealm battlegrounds came in 1.12, the end of vanilla. So yea I give you that, but it was still in an era of alliance av dominance.
and to anyone revisiting this thread complaining about how long its carried on for, and how it dont matter because “classic is over”, just be happy we aren’t creating new threads every other day when we want to engage in this topic of discussion.
run on sentences ftw!
i’d imagine im not the only one in this current discussion, that is nowhere near finished with classic vanilla.
and yea, change the rez cycle. do something ffs, i want a better av for all of us.
Uhhhh when they brought in reinforcements it was because the horde was the dominant pvp faction and already wtfpwning AV so they didnt want them to have an easier time winning by farming allies in mid until their reinforcements ran out while doing no objectives and still getting way more honor than the alliance.
uhh, you sure about that?
reinforcements was brought in to speed the games up even more. the cave was moved not too long after that when the balance shifted to horde dominance due to fortifying iceblood until enemy reinforcements were depleted.
They didnt want people sitting back and just farming kills - the alliance had the offensive edge but the horde had the defensive and there were a couple of battlegroups that were already making life hard on the alliance by using the IB choke.
Classic launched with allowing AV premades to happen.
It was the abuse of the premade players that made blizzard break it.
Even farming kills was an advantage for horde in TBC prior to 2.03 because those depleted reinforcements as well. The games would still be shorter and horde had the built in advantage from a contested, yet very doable Balinda kill. Alliance had a harder time getting the same kill to even the reinforcement edge. That was a point at which Alliance had to be hands down better than Horde to even it out and is pretty easily the least fair point in AV’s history.
Yes but they didnt make the change because the horde had a map imbalance advantage in 1.12 in Vanilla, that was my only point. Reinforcements changed the way the map was played. When they brought reinforcements in that was the horde strat, at least in BG9. Kill Bal, maybe burn SHB and then just sit 40 in the IB choke and burn down the rest.
What these guys think that has to do with 1.12 AV is beyond me. I dont care what version of AV we are talking about, if any team be it the horde or the alliance sit an active 40 at GY with the expressed purpose of stopping the other team right there the opponent has to be markedly better to overcome that. Its the same scenario for both teams /shrug.
The horde can do it now with SHGY because the horde will most of their team there (since the alliance arent threatening them anywhere else) and they will eventually take it because the alliance have 3 in the starting cave, 2 fishing, 4 in the harpy cave, some stealth moving south and a bunch of afks staying in HK range around the GY.
Just as an aside those map changes (cave push back) didnt do anything to change the outcome in the Stormstrike battlegroup. Stormstrike horde dominated AV to the point where the alliance boycotted the bg. There was another battlegroup that kicked alliance butt as well and then you had groups that were around 50/50 and some that were alliance dominated. So again, its not really where the horde cave is yadda yadda, it all comes down to the players when it comes to win/loss.
Yep. This has been expressed repeatedly. While I do think the cave should probably be moved in 1.12’s AV, the idea that it was moved in TBC so obviously it is an issue is circumstantial at best. Basically, it is a narrative in search of facts that conveniently ignores the underlying reasons why the cave was moved in TBC. Honestly, the entire argument is kinda silly because the cave advantage becomes far less of one if Alliance are able to engage from SFGY negating the advantage by gaining a proximity advantage for rezzing which was the entire point of placing SFGY in its current location.
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All that said, that bug in the midfield where death spawns you back at the aid station is all sorts of stupid and I have no idea why it hasn’t been fixed. It should be fixed and doing so would make assaulting SFGY from SHGY much more doable and likely changes the way the map is played Alliance side.
Moving the cave in 1.12 is a minor issue since losing SHB/Balinda isn’t a huge deal.
The rez order however is a major issue in 1.12 and removing the cave as a rez option until other things are capped would be the significant change.
Rez order and rez option are the 2 aspects of the game that they should change for 1.12. I don’t see a good reason why either side should rez at the starting cave until no other option is available. I also see no good reason why dying midfield sends alliance players to the aid station. Those are the two changes I think just about everyone in this thread has agreed with.
I think you did it Fayld. Are we actually reaching common ground with this line of thought?
Personally, I feel this is only a minor concession that very well could be the momentum that gets the pendulum swinging again.
I would like to agree, but we have been in agreement on those two specific items for over 2000 posts. Even more maddening is that both of those changes should be fairly straight forward assuming the underlying code is orderly and well thought out. The fact that Blizzard has ignored these changes pretty much sums up the entire thread. It is pretty clear they are done looking at AV which is truly unfortunate. Even if it doesn’t help this iteration of Classic, other games have reiterated their own versions of classic periodically. I would assume Blizzard would have interest in this as well. Making changes like these two now allows those changes to be rolled into any future iteration providing an opportunity to avoid some of this. #sigh.
The only comment in the OP was about changing the cave rez order, that’s it, that was the only suggestion. The only reason anything else even came up was a handful of horde who can’t get it past their egos that there’s some else impacting horde win rates in AV besides horde just being super 1337(but only in AV).
go ding 60 in classic and then comeback into the thread and post. until then you are a non-factor in this discussion. troll.
Shocking that someone who doesn’t understand AV also doesn’t understand the concept of what an alt is.
Why don’t you go try playing WSG or AB or is playing on a balanced map too hard for you?
i win those more than i lose too. even out of the premade. and without those, alli wouldnt win as much.
keep trying.
and you told on yourself already. its too late.
i respect the opinion of a 59 classic twink much more than i ever would a retail tourist.
Thats their entire argument. Seek and ye shall find cuts both ways. These guys are AJW’s (alliance justice warriors). They go looking for reasons and when they cant find any good ones that fit their preconceived notions and theories then just about anything will do.
95% lost rate? Its the map. Alliance arent trying because why bother when its an auto loss - cuz the map. The bonus is you can conveniently ignore actually rational and proven explanations like metas and queue times as ‘irrelevant’ - because if you had to reckon with them you wouldnt have a reason to whine about it and hate the other faction like theyre really a separate species from you.
Its clear from reading their posts they think that the alliance sucking in AV makes me feel good about myself or happy or something - it doesnt. Its freakin depressing. I long for good AVs and consistent wins for both factions because thats better for participation and makes the games way more fun to take part in.
What a bunch of BS. Being 60 doesn’t somehow instill an understanding of terrain, time or distance, not to mention common sense. Case in point - YOU.
How is it possible to have concrete FACTS thrown in your face only to ignore it?
Yes it does. You purposefully made an Alliance alt just so you could do this very thing.